How "secure" is your job

[KrozFan]

So going off of Bob's post today, how "secure" does everyone feel in their jobs. I don't feel too bad about mine, I work as a computer programmer for a financial services company. Even though I'm in that industry my group supports the production group, we're busy and they're busy. I feel fairly safe and think that even if layoffs hit the compnay people in customer service would go first so at least some of us may have a heads up. In the meantime I'm doing as much as I can to increase my knowledge and prove to my boss I'm valuable. I'm also taking courses so I'm up to speed on things incase I need to find a new job.

[matt]

I don't feels especially secure in my job, but I'm not worried about it. My job has been pretty grueling lately, I'd almost welcome being laid off. I'm actually getting things together to start looking for a new job.

[pochax]

On a scale of 1 to 10, my security level is probably an 8. since i work for a pharmaceutical company, we are not quite as prone to the volatility as some other sectors, since health care demand will remain high for the forseeable future. not to mention that a few people in my department have left on their own thereby passively creating a "layoff" effect of sorts so we have already downsized without even trying....

[tds0249]

I'm guessing my security level is around a 6 right now. They just laid off 3 people this morning. I work in a business related to construction and we're only doing about 25% of what we did last year. With each passing day that the industry doesn't turn around, my security level gets lower and lower.

[Amatachick]

In all honesty, I feel I'm about a 9 right now. I'm in the unique position of being the only person in my company capable of doing my job. I also know that the feedback I've been getting from my bosses and co-workers has been glowing. I just finished a year long project under budget and ahead of schedule. I'm feeling pretty secure. That being said though, you never know, so I don't think I'd ever label myself as a 10.

[Neha]

not secure at all...i'm a freelancer, so my job security is pretty much in the hands of my clients...still, it hasn't been affected too much by the market crash...so my hopes are up

[GHolmes]

There is so much negative news out that adds to the nervousness. My goal over the next 5 years is to get multiple income streams so I am not so dependent on my "job" working for others.

[matt]

neha,

what do you do as a freelancer? I'm a web designer/developer and do a little freelance on the side but I'd like to expand that if I can. Any insight would be appreciated.

[bob]

Matt, not sure if you saw this article or not that I wrote about making money designing logos, but it may be up your alley...

[matt]

hmm, I must have missed that, I'm way behind on my rss feeds. I'm not sure if I like that crowd spring thing, too much risk of working for free I think. It may be good if you're a college student (or trying to break into the design biz) and trying to build a portfolio of work though.

[matt]

hmm, you know the more I think about it, I don't think I like that crowdspring site.

Think about their model applied to other businesses:

I want my taxes done, I give my info to a number of CPAs and whoever returns with the best tax return gets paid for their work and everyone else is just SOL.

Or how about I want a really nice Kobe steak dinner, 10 restaurants will prepare a meal for me, I will taste them all and pay for the dinner I like best. Everyone else gets nothing.

Or even a related field: I want a portrait of my family painted, 10 painters will paint for us and the painter of the portrait I like best will get paid, the other painters get nothing.

No business/business owner in their right mind would participate in such a venture as I have described above. I guess the funny thing about the crowdspring site is that they have a number of designers who do willing participate in just such a scenario. Those designers (if indeed they are even professional designers) are selling themselves short, IMO.

[bob]

yea, I see what you mean... it kind of turns the whole design process into a commodity, it is interesting because it seems like there are more business models popping up like that - for better or worse

[TheWealthSquad]

Crowdspring - If you are a business person starting out, it can provide a very economical logo for a reasonable amount. You also get a lot of people to choose from.

Personally I would never compete on the vendor side of that model because you never get the value you are worth. As a business person looking for lower cost alternatives it provides a good place to look.

Security will never be at a place of work you don't control. Companies make decisions that can impact your career without you having any say in the matter. Security is only in being in control of your finances, developing alternative streams of income and a sideline or full time business that you can control the growth of.

and the best place that security comes from - having faith in God :0

[matt]

Security is only in being in control of your finances, developing alternative streams of income and a sideline or full time business that you can control the growth of.

Even with this you can't control the market shifts (or bad legislation) that may put you out of business.

and the best place that security comes from - having faith in God :0

That's the only place security comes from.

[TheWealthSquad]

By creating multiple alternative streams of income you can at least mitigate the damage any one change in the law can have on your.

Being flexible also gives you the ability to respond to changes. Having faith in God and his protection definitely makes it much easier to handle those changes.

[lukspencer]

I have a fairly secure job probably a 9 in a scale of 10...I applied for this job to finish school (they paid for it), and ended up being very dependent on it. It is not a particularly desirable job and I wish I would have acted like I was going to leave at any time, preparing myself for the next step. - - saying this I think that it is always good to be prepared as possible for the prospect of not having a job, because it is not always the economy that takes you out of the workforce.

Luke

[johnkeith]

With my current job I'd say around 5 security wise but my experince 10. I am a mobile crane operator. I been working for a small company for the last 8 yrs. Work has been extremely slow since Thanksgiving. I've been on unemployment and working just when needed. I believe that my experience is valuable asset I have. Mankind will always be in need of cranes till the Lord comes.
I might have to relocate someday but a career change most likely will not be needed.

[IvanR]

I feel pretty secure in my career right now. With all the "mandatory" overtime I am putting in right now, I don't see how they could afford to lay us off. As a matter of fact, I think that our department is short handed and we need another person. The "do more with less" mantra is overulling that thought right now.

[4jacks]

I feel pretty secure in my career right now. With all the "mandatory" overtime I am putting in right now, I don't see how they could afford to lay us off. As a matter of fact, I think that our department is short handed and we need another person. The "do more with less" mantra is overulling that thought right now.

Where do you work?

[IvanR]

Where do you work?

I work for an insurance company (Communications/IT).

[MART]

If you will allow me to butt in, with a matter that you may also consider to be a factor in job security. I am referring to academic qualifications. I particularly want to focus on how they figure in the lives of people who do not possess them but have nevertheless developed a high level of competence and even expertise in their respective lines of work, through self-study, acquired trainings and extensive experience. I call these people the "non-certified experts" or NCE. More often than not employed NCEs rely on their exceptional competence and quality of work or outputs to remain valuable in the work place. Usually, they possess the quality of character, values and attitudes that make them highly productive in their organizations. How are they being affected by this current insecurity in employment? I am observing that, unlike how it was in the 50s and the 60s when skill, knowledge and attitudes matter much in putting a man on ever elevating levels of knowledge-acquisition and altitudes of success, now paper-credentials are required to get more paper-credentials and more piles of them to go higher in ones occupation.
I have met people who are NCEs. A few are millionaires. They have used their uncertified expertise to build their own financial empires, unhampered by any academic qualification requirements. I suspect, however, that many NCEs in this world are trapped in their workplaces, giving out high quality outputs and yet unqualified for the compensation rate that can only be given to someone with the required academic credentials. I believed the worst case is of the NCE who is barred from gaining entry into an occupation where his or her services and expertise could be producing outputs of excellence that can benefit mankind simply because of lack of required academic letters. Are NCEs exploited and discriminated?
Do you consider yourself an NCE? Do you know anyone of this status? I am interested in making the world hear the voices of NCEs. I recently opened a blog where I hope NCEs, or anyone who has something to say about this matter, can contribute their opinions or tell their stories.

[4jacks]

Mart,

I think I might just be a "NCE" as you call them. I got hired as a Civil Engineer with a Associates Degree at a time when Engineers were in very high demand. Now that we are not, there is a pretty strict requirement for a BS degree. They of course made an exception for me. But the thing I find ironic about your post, is you Sing the praises of NCE's and how they can be productive and valueable. But if they are so productive, why don't they go get a degree. lol. If an intelligent NCE sees that a degree is required to progress in the field, why would they chose to not get one. I understand some people feel they don't have the time, but if you make that choice, then you are making the choice to simply go as far as you can without the degree. Personally I'm working full time and going to school part time, so I know it's hard, but it's still doing what you have to do to get ahead.

[MART]

Mart,

I think I might just be a "NCE" as you call them. I got hired as a Civil Engineer with a Associates Degree at a time when Engineers were in very high demand. Now that we are not, there is a pretty strict requirement for a BS degree. They of course made an exception for me. But the thing I find ironic about your post, is you Sing the praises of NCE's and how they can be productive and valueable. But if they are so productive, why don't they go get a degree. lol. If an intelligent NCE sees that a degree is required to progress in the field, why would they chose to not get one. I understand some people feel they don't have the time, but if you make that choice, then you are making the choice to simply go as far as you can without the degree. Personally I'm working full time and going to school part time, so I know it's hard, but it's still doing what you have to do to get ahead.

Yes, Sir. You do have a good point there. I myself have seen in the Internet so many offers of college and post-graduate degrees from colleges and universities in the United States, which I believe is also true in Europe and in many developed countries. I can see that an employed person in the U.S., for example, can realistically work in a job and work towards a degree at the same time. The offers I saw in the Internet are so inexpensive, and they can be paid in a few hundred dollars a month only until the degree program is completed. In other parts of the world, however, bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees are so expensive that once a talented non-degree holder starts working, chances are that his or her salary would not be able to meet a budget that includes the cost of a degree program. In the Philippines, for example, 60% of a person's income simply goes to food-budget only. But, your observation is good. It enabled the surfacing of another factor that must be included when viewing the world of NCEs --the factor of poverty.

[KrozFan]

The idea of NCE's being trapped is dependent on the profession and the company they would be applying to. For example I'm a computer programmer and that is very much a profession where it's more what you know instead of what a piece of paper says. It's easy to determine that in an interview too by asking the candidate the right questions and having them write some code. I have also seen companies ask candidates to write code before coming in to interview.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Dan Miller who wrote 48 Days to the Work You Love, but he talks about how some companies will list degree requirements so candidates self screen themselves out. But, if you feel that you are the best for the job you should apply anyway. If I had a Bachelors degree in Management (true in my case), and was applying for a programmer job that required a Bachelors in IT or Computer Science, BUT I had spent 10 years working at Microsoft or Google (not true in my case) do you think they would want to talk to me? This is where it depends on the size of the company. A large company may have hard and fast rules, but a smaller company may love to hire someone with that type of experience, degree or not.

4Jacks is an example of this, an exception was made for him because, I'm assuming, he is a hard working guy who knows his stuff, regardless of what a degree would say.

Dan Miller also says that 10 years out of college 80% of graduates are doing something unrelated to their degree. So this is not an uncommon thing, especially these days.

[4jacks]

4Jacks is an example of this, an exception was made for him because, I'm assuming, he is a hard working guy who knows his stuff, regardless of what a degree would say.

I think it's because they pay me 70% of Average Salary for an Engineer w/ a Degree.

[MART]

I am very grateful for the opinions that have been brought up at this point on the subject matter of “non-certified experts” which, to come to think of it, may also be referred to as “non-degree holders” or, as can be understood in the opinion presented by KrozFan, may also be referred to as “unrelated degree holder”. I am very much interested on how different people view this matter through different perspectives and already my “learning-bag” of information is getting weighty just from two responses so far. Jack has put forward the factor that involves the role of attitudes and wisdom, such as the wisdom to surmount an obstacle and the determination to reach a goal. This is indeed something that needs to be evaluated when looking into the condition of NCEs, whether the poverty-factor is present or not. Through Jack’s insight my mind actually brought up NCEs I have met who were exceptionally splendid in their occupations but were also so dedicated in the “artwork” or excellence of whatever they are doing that they are almost completely oblivious of the importance of a goal to which they can hitch their future and dreams. KrozFan (Sir, please let me know if I am correctly addressing you by your name as it appears along your write up) dropped into my “learning-bag” another factor -- the factor of work culture that shape the system over labor force. I believe up to the present the Americans may have still managed to keep most of the spirit of labor, that enabled their forefathers produce a great nation out of a wild continent during the pioneering days, which may be summed up in the words, “Let me see what you can do with your hands as I cannot see how your words can cut trees.” That kind of work culture could still be alive in the American industries where, as KrozFan says, academic qualifications are published to make applicants screen themselves but the competent and the determined are still given the opportunity to show what they can do. If this is the case, as I can see through the perspective of Jack and KrozFan, it is probably worth it to study the “planning and the goal making quotient”, or PGQ (in relation to “intelligence quotient” or IQ) of NCEs and also the width of leeway that industries are actually giving “non-degree holders” and “unrelated degree holders” to compete with applicants or co-workers who possess the required academic qualifications. I am very grateful for your opinions and insights. As I mentioned in my first post, I was just butting in on a subject matter (on job security) that was being lively discussed. While I would much appreciate more insights on my subject of interest I also do not wish to disrupt the original trend of discussion. My thanks to Jack and KrozFan. You may want to visit my blog about the NCE, but I cannot yet put the URL here as there is a rule about this that I need to follow first.

[4jacks]

Why do you use so many acronyms? Are you in the millitary?

Don't worry about interrupting discussions or the like, it's a public forum and you are pretty much on topic. However if you want to create a new thread to keep it seperate, feel free to do so.

Newbies have a requirement to get 5 posts before they can post a hyperlink. This is to prevent spam. If you want to post a non-spam related link just do it like www (dot) mylink (dot) com, A mod will come behind you and link it for you.

Also if you want to promote your personal (non-spammy) blog or website you can do that in the forum that says "tell us about your blog" Same thing about the hyperlink.

Anyhow, I still think NCE's (experts) should just shut up and get the degree, after all they are experts, right? However if you just talk about Non-Degree Holders, or people where poverty is a factor, I understand that is a different story.

[KrozFan]

Anyhow, I still think NCE's (experts) should just shut up and get the degree, after all they are experts, right? However if you just talk about Non-Degree Holders, or people where poverty is a factor, I understand that is a different story.

I don't know, it seems like if you already know how to do something it's a lot of time to spend to get a degree. Especially if you already have one in a different field. If you're more than qualified for a job now I don't know that I would want to spend years getting a degree just so I have a piece of paper that says I'm qualified. Depends on how many credits you can go in with I guess.

I'm sure this is why a lot of people strike out on their own though. They lose out on jobs to less qualified candidates who have the right paper and decide they've had enough.

[4jacks]

Exactly, If you are an 'expert' and in a situation where you will make a decent amount Less or even lose your job, why wouldn't you go get the paper? And if you have one in a different field, sometimes it is possible to go back for a Master's in the correct field, instead of the Bachleors. There is a guy here who has his BS in Mathematics and after working here a while got his MS in Civil Engineering from John Hopkins.

Of course if your in a situation where it won't effect your pay or job security, then why bother.

It's hard for me to think of a situation where you could really strike out on your own w/o the proper degree. I don't think it could happen in my field. Well I guess it could, if you were very business savy, you could just hire a buch of Engineers.

[KrozFan]

It's hard for me to think of a situation where you could really strike out on your own w/o the proper degree. I don't think it could happen in my field. Well I guess it could, if you were very business savy, you could just hire a buch of Engineers.

Seems like that would be farily easy. I don't know anyone who will ask where someone went to school when they're hiring a company to do a job. I've never asked anyone where they went to school, I don't care. I may want to know who they've done work for in the past, or go there because someone recommended me, but I don't ask where they went to school, or how they did.

It may be hard at the beginning because you don't have any clients so you have no work to show, but many businesses have that same problem, degree or not. And it comes down to would you hire a nobody with 10 years experience, or a nobody with 2 years experience and a piece of paper.

Obviously there are legal issues surrounding these things. I'm pretty sure you can't practice law or medicine without the proper degree, and you can't call youself a CPA without actually being certified.

[4jacks]

Obviously there are legal issues surrounding these things. I'm pretty sure you can't practice law or medicine without the proper degree, and you can't call youself a CPA without actually being certified.

Yeah it's a certification Issue. All Blue Prints have to be signed by a registered Professional Engineer, So it seems to me that at least 90% of Engineering Companies I know of are owned by Engineers.

[KrozFan]

Yeah it's a certification Issue. All Blue Prints have to be signed by a registered Professional Engineer, So it seems to me that at least 90% of Engineering Companies I know of are owned by Engineers.

Well in this case a degree is more than "just a piece of paper"

[Zach]

I am a student of BS(CS). But soon I'll join my office. So I hear that what should we do to secure our job. Can anybody suggest me with detail?
Thanks in advance.

[KrozFan]

I am a student of BS(CS). But soon I'll join my office. So I hear that what should we do to secure our job. Can anybody suggest me with detail?
Thanks in advance.

My company is going throuh layoffs right now, hopefully they're done actually, so I have a newer perspective than I did two years ago. My first suggestion is don't freak out, and realize that there's only so much you can do. For example if your company or boss has the philosophy of "last hired first fired" there's nothing you can do. If they cut your whole group (which is the thing I mostly think would happen in my case) there's nothing you can do. Don't worry about it. Focus on your work.

Other than that do your job well and play well with others. If your job doesn't offer flexible hours make sure you're at work and ready to work at the time you're scheduled. Don't walk in late or walk in exactly on time but take 15 minutes to put your lunch away and get a coffee. Do your job to the best of your ability, even if you get stuck with the stupid tasks no one wants. Also do this because they won't give you important tasks if you can't show that you can do tasks correctly. Always be willing to learn. I had a friend survive layoffs in his group and he believes it was because he was willing to learn a new task, someone who wasn't so flexible ended up getting laid off.

In general I would also advise you to be yourself. You will do better to find a company that fits your style than trying to be someone you're not. There's a lot of conflicting job advice out there so I feel it's best not to try to mold yourself into what you're not. For example I've read articles saying that if you work from home you're more likely to survive a layoff because you're actually saving the company money. They don't need to pay for equipment for you, or find a desk. I've read other articles saying that you're more likely to go because if your manager doesn't see you as much it's easier emotionally to get rid of you compared to someone they see every day. Also a manager could look at someone working 12 hour days and think "I should promote that guy he's a hard worker", but someone else may say "there's a guy who doesn't know how to delegate"

[sinciselit]

thanx for share. good job.

[b2k34]

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[linkdire42]

Thank you for informing us with important information.

[Gary Barzel]

I think that everyone regardless of their job security should always have something to fall back on should things go wrong. Starting a side business or having some sort of income on the side is helpful not only when you need to rely on it, but even when you don't and it brings you an extra income. Noways especially with the internet it's so much easier than it used to to have something on the side.

[pronunciacion]

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