Christian Financial Forums

[Bob]

I am writing an article about this passage today discussing the need to have money as a Christian. What if the Good Samaritan would have been broke?

Luke 10:25-37 (New International Version)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27 He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010:25-37&version=31

[4jacks]

Good Topic Bob,

Funny, I got a new audio Bible and just listen to this an hour before reading this.

Honestly if the samaritain had been broke versus 34 & 35 wouldn't have existed

"He saw him and took pity on him" THE END

And that's about how I feel nowadays when I see a worth while cuase I would like to support.

[CanadianGirl]

Oh, I have been feeling that way too. Lots of places I'd love to give money but until I get this debt monkey off my back... All the more reason to kick it up a notch! So I can, like Dave says, Give like no one else.

[Persevere]

What an eye opener! I had never looked at this passage that way. I'm looking forward to reading the article.

[andy]

What if the hotel bill etc took all of his emergency fund, then somthing else came up, would he have been guilty of bad budgetting? Don't we some times simply act in heart felt compassion without thinking of ourselves then sometimes suffer consequences later, or as soon as we hit a situation where we are touched with compasion, should we go straight to our spreadsheet and do the calculations and risk analysis and come up with a y/n decision or a reduced and more doable figure?

So long as we are not already greedy and self seeking, is it not more important that our giving is informed by a good heart rather than a good budget? In-deed there are some for whom budgetting is very difficult.

Mark 12:44
2 Cor 8:3

Were these people bad budgeters?

[pochax]

What if the hotel bill etc took all of his emergency fund, then somthing else came up, would he have been guilty of bad budgetting? Don't we some times simply act in heart felt compassion without thinking of ourselves then sometimes suffer consequences later, or as soon as we hit a situation where we are touched with compasion, should we go straight to our spreadsheet and do the calculations and risk analysis and come up with a y/n decision or a reduced and more doable figure?

So long as we are not already greedy and self seeking, is it not more important that our giving is informed by a good heart rather than a good budget? In-deed there are some for whom budgetting is very difficult.

Mark 12:44
2 Cor 8:3

Were these people bad budgeters?

i think that is the challenge of being a Christian - knowing that perfect balance of giving vs. being a good steward. i think we are not at a loss of "worthy" causes that we could give our entire net worths and there still would be pain and suffering in the world. you are right that our excel spreadsheets cannot govern our hearts exclusively. But i think that is why God gave us the standard of the tithe as the minimum to give - to remind us that is a good (or at least biblically acceptable) starting point. But the heart of giving is also important as you noted in the 2 Cor passage. But if your giving is not cheerful, it can be one of two reasons: 1) you are being greedy and worship money (Mammon) or 2) God has put it in your conscience to be a responsible steward with what you have and that you (at this point and time) cannot afford to give that much. Wisdom and discernment is required to know the difference between the two.

[Bob]

Pochax - well said.

[Persevere]

When one is in debt, what is most important to God--seeing us giving more or seeing us being cheerful?

[pochax]

When one is in debt, what is most important to God--seeing us giving more or seeing us being cheerful?

Hi Persevere,
I'm not sure this is the right question to ask...2 Cor states "God loves a cheerful giver" which never pits being cheerful against being giving. Additionally, this isn't the only biblical verse/passage on money management otherwise we should all this give until we are bankrupt and do so cheerfully. There are also passages such as the parable of the talents, Jesus' anger at the marketplace, references in OT and NT to tithing, rendering to Caesar what is his and to God what is His, etc etc. Perhaps a more pertinent question would be "Why am i not cheerfully giving?". Perhaps it is because one knows if they give when they have lots of debt, they are not being a good steward of their money. Perhaps it is because they want to save that money for a nice new watch. Perhaps it is a combination of factors. These things take wisdom to discern. James 1 states that if anyone lacks wisdom, ask God. The Bible also gives much reference to the fact that our human hearts are deceitful. Taken together, i would interpret that to mean i shouldn't trust my own human reasoning but ask God what the right thing to do is. I would then meditate on His Word, pray, and see how i understand God would have me act. I would then act accordingly with faith that it is the best possible thing for me to do but be open (humble enough?) to the fact that i may have misunderstood or allowed my sinful heart to influence me. Should godly advice or rebuke come, i would carefully listen and possibly act differently. Sometimes you don't have a lot of time to make these decisions (eg. Good Samaritan scenario), and you have to go straight to the trust/ask God part. either way, one can cheerfully give once they have reconciled that they have honestly and wholeheartedly submitted their plans/intentions before God. just my 2 cents (which may be worth only 1 cent...if that).

[KrozFan]

When one is in debt, what is most important to God--seeing us giving more or seeing us being cheerful?

Are you saying it has to be one or the other? One of the great things about giving is there are so many ways to give, and so many organizations to give to. I have given to a few different charities over the years and I was happy about giving to all of them. God wants both from us. If you're not cheerful about giving to a certain organization than maybe that's a sign you need to look for another organization to give to. You don't need to try to change the world with every donation, you can give to your local library, or a charity related to a hobby of yours.

On the topic of "while one is in debt", one of the things Dave Ramsey says a lot is that a person has to take care of their house first. Dave believes in doing your tithe, but above that paying off debts. I think biblically he makes a good point, and that we should make sure that we are on stable ground so we come from a place of strength to give help, and hopefully not need as much help ourselves.

[matt]

Did you just say that Dave Ramsey says paying off debt is more important that tithing? Is that true? I don't listen to him.

I definitely disagree with that:

Mark 12:43-44 (New International Version)
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

[4jacks]

Did you just say that Dave Ramsey says paying off debt is more important that tithing? Is that true? I don't listen to him.

I definitely disagree with that:

Mark 12:43-44 (New International Version)
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

No, I think you misinterpretted what Kroz said. I've heard the Dave thing also. with Dave Tithe's comes off the top. But if you are in debt, then you don't make any special offerings until you get out of debt. I commented about what he said in my thread about special offerings during steps 1&2

[KrozFan]

Did you just say that Dave Ramsey says paying off debt is more important that tithing? Is that true? I don't listen to him.

I definitely disagree with that:

Mark 12:43-44 (New International Version)
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

I went back and read what I said and I realize I said it funny. Dave says encourages people to tithe, though he recognizes that people that listen to his show aren't necessarily Christians and not everyone will do that, but after the tithe take care of your own house first. Sorry for the confusion, awkward wording.

[matt]

ahh, thanks for the clarification.

[Persevere]

Hi Pochax,
Thanks. That was worth at least two cents!

Hi KrozFan,
No, I don't think we have to choose between giving more and being cheerful. In the process of giving, though, some people need to work through this. Until they reach the point of giving cheerfully, some people give less money cheerfully and some people give more money not cheerfully.

Thanks for your perspective.

[P31woman]

Bob,

You don't know where the money came from other than from God untimately. As far as we know he found the money on the road hours before or even after he discovered the injured man.

I don't believe God need "me" to focuse on "trying so hard to have money" inorder to do his work.

He has always been faithful to supply the resources needed in His good time right when it was needed.

Look for example at Mary and Joseph. They were not wealthy as some would have us to believe. LOL But God knew they would need to take Jesus into hiding for two years and who did GOD already have on the way to supply them with the resources needed to go into hiding? The men from the East.

[P31woman]

Persevere wrote:
When one is in debt, what is most important to God--seeing us giving more or seeing us being cheerful?

Context always matters. You quoted a passage taken from 2 Corinthians 8-9. Let me take you to the first part of the passage.

1And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints. 5And they did not do as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then to us in keeping with God's will.

Noitce our example is people living in extreme poverty. Do a study on this passage and you will see they were going hungry often!

Notice what "God did".

Notice their giving was BEYOND THEIR ABILITY to give. That means it was the Holy Spirit working in that situation. It won't burn up in the fire.

What God wants from you is what we are informed about here. It's the same thing he wants from me. For me to FIRST give my heart to God. When I do that then I will beg even when I am living in extreme poverty to be a part of the spreading of the gospel message to the lost.