I found an interesting article today about Michael Moore, the famous documentary director of Farenheit 9/11 and Sicko. Moore has a new movie coming out soon called Capitalism: A Love Story, in which he apparently explains why Capitalism is “Anti-Jesus”.
While I agree with Moore that we have problems in our current system, I personally don’t believe that Capitalism is the problem. As I wrote a few weeks ago, I don’t think the government should be redistributing our money, but WE should be redistributing our wealth by giving to take care those less fortunate. If all Christians across the world were giving like we should be, things would look VERY different.
In the article he makes an interesting point…
“[The wealthiest Americans] proved that the free market is something they really don’t believe in, they don’t believe in competition, they actually do believe in socialism, that we the people should use our tax dollars to keep them in their mansions and their yachts.”
The argument that congress would use is that without the bailout, the whole system would have collapsed – dramatically affecting everyone’s financial lives. Looking at how so much of the bailout money was spent, I think Moore’s argument has some validity.
Dividing up the pie
But, here is where I think he gets confused…
“but I do have very strong beliefs and these beliefs were formed not in the school of Karl Marx, but in the Catholic Church. Priests and nuns taught me these lessons of how we’re to treat each other, how we’re to treat the poor, and how we’re to divide up the pie.”
We are to treat each other with love, we are to give to the poor, but what about “divid(ing) up the pie”? If you look at the parable of the talents, you could argue the exact opposite point. The good steward (who increased what he had) was given more by the master. I am not going to pretend I know how judge whether poverty is a result of a lack of personal responsibility or the hand that one was dealt in life. But either way, Jesus told us that we would ALWAYS have the poor (Mark 14:7), so thinking that a switch to Socialism would eliminate poverty seems a bit misguided to me.
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Bob, this opens up a deep set of questions, but I don’t know that the Bible actually points to one system of government over another. Of all the things Jesus taught us, he was virtually silent on the issue of government. In fact maybe his most stunning near-political pronouncement was telling Pontius Pilate, “you have no power except that which was granted to you from above”. (wow!)
The corruption or justice of a government may be more important than it’s basic system. Some third world countries with governments so minimal that they don’t really fit into any polical/economic category are still so corrupt and repressive that they’re downright evil and economic activity is below subsistance levels. You would think that capitalism would flourish in those places, but instead they morph into feudalism.
Conversely, the US and most of Europe have very large governments that are at least quasi-socialist, and yet we have more freedom and economic opportunity than people in third world countries.
There’s something else at work beyond the government or economic format that’s in place. Maybe it’s the traditions and beliefs of the people of one country vs. another, maybe it’s the level of blessing each country enjoys from Above.
What ever the system in place, we’re still called upon to do the work of God for the people around us within the scope of that system.
Kevin, don’t confuse an economic system with a governmental one. While one can certainly influence, or in the case of government, mandate the other; they’re not the same. Our government is a representative democracy. Our economy is a capitalist one.
Until people live morally, particularly those in positions of power, there will always be corruption in any system.
People don’t seem to get the difference between giving to someone, and being forced to give. My wife and I give, both with our money and time, and are happy to do so, but neither of us are thrilled at the idea of being forced to give. I don’t like way the government spends my money, especially when they give my money to other people for things I don’t believe in (cash for clunkers).
I wonder if the government would ever be interested in trying to get us to give more. If people gave more to good charities who were actually helping people we’d have less of a need for these government programs.
A very thought provoking article. Interesting…. This topic brings to mind a book I’m currently reading called Financial Purity by Jessica V. Psalidas. In it she explains how money, when managed by God’s design, can help build financial wealth on solid foundation. Money, mis-used or spent poorly can bring on financial stress. Understanding your attitude is everything!
capitalism is not the problem. in fact if everybody adopted a capitalistic attitude the issue of wealth differences could not be as big a thing as it is now. the problem is socialism as it makes people not want to be responsible with the resources that are at their disposal
In thinking of my response, the chicken and the egg immediately come to mind.
Does the government force giving which limits actual charity? Or was actual charity so low that the government was forced to take?
And I have to agree with the commenter above about the government funding programs I don’t agree with. Although therein lies the problem. He cited cash for clunkers. I was fine with that. But I have a whole lot of other things I disagree with that he may agree with. Can’t please everyone.
EnvoyPV–Your point is well taken (“don’t confuse an economic system with a governmental one”). But in our day and time, government has become so powerful and pervasive in everyday life, that it essentially dictates the economic system, or at least HEAVILY influences it. Tax and spending policies are prime examples. They’re regularly used to drive the economy in different directions.
Because of this we really don’t have a true capitalist system either, not any more. In a capitalist economy, government wouldn’t be spending trillions of dollars to fight a weakening economy. What we have is more of a system of social capitalism, which is a hybrid, a capitalist system with heavy government influence and control. Because of this, I’m not sure you really can separate government and economic systems.
The world’s systems are much more interwoven than at any time in the past. In fact, I think one of the Big Picture problems we’re facing today is that we don’t completely comprehend that interdependence, not just between government and economic systems, but even between countries, technologies and financial systems. We’re most definately living in interesting times!
First, we need to get our definitions right. Capitalism is getting things done based on capital. Jesus never spoke out against capitalism.
Jesus himself organized his followers in what is truly communism (not what the Soviet Union had, which is not communism at all).
Poor Michael Moore would simply keel over if he had to live without captialism for even one day.
So, what’s all the fuss about?
When people reference what America “used to be”… I ask you, what do you want us to return to?
The times of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle?” The book was written because of the fact that companies WILL NOT police themselves. So what was created? The FDA. A lot of government agencies that exist were at one time created because of a problem with capitalism. What was the problem? The market runs at peak efficiency and looks at negative externalities (like potential cost of people getting sick from your moldy meat) as just another cost of running the business.
Sorry, but no thank you.
I’m not a fan of MM, but I think he’s on to something if he focuses on the influence that capitalism has on our democracy. The money spent lobbying the Fed and State govts is ridiculous. That should definitely be exposed more and we should strive to rid our govt system from the monetary influence.
Where MM gets it wrong, and where I think many of the Christians that voted for Obama get it wrong, is that it’s not the US Gov’s job to help the poor in the name of Christ. It’s our job. The Gov shouldn’t be used for redistribution.
Capitalism itself isn’t a problem. If capitalism is twisted to where a person is always on the lookout for themselves for selfish reasons, that is where the problem lies.
If Christians view their money and possessions as their own, instead of being stewards of their money for God’s purposes, then they are not reflecting God.
I just tonight read an article that said to Michael Moore that if he hates capitalism so much, why does he charge money for his movies? We know why…this is how he earns a living. It is that simple! There is no bad thing in that…wanting to earn a living. I do agree that some corporate “fat cats” take advantage of their employees and their customers and America. In the name of profit, corporations have moved their factories out of the country or retailers buy from the cheapest nation (China) over the backs of children. This is shameful and the evil side of capitalism. However, the good side is those who turn around and give to their community, treat their employees right and respect their customers. Mostly, this comes in the form of small businessmen and women. Yet, our government punishes the small, independents with fees, charges, legislation, etc. California, where I live, ranks 49th (!) for being business-friendly. We must find a balance and we must get back to Christian values so that capitalism CAN work and everyone being able to give to others. That, to me, is what Jesus would have business people do – help neighbors and communities rather than counting the gold in their pockets.
I think the issue is towards the heart. Some in the world believe in communism which puts ownership with the state. Many believe in capitalism which puts ownership with each individual. However, Christianity puts ownership with God and we are just stewards of everything he owns. Once we understand this truth we are able to operate freely and with trust in God. Let’s face it, it’s only by the grace and mercy of God that we are able to even have money, or work, etc. He is the one that enables us in all that we do. Just my two cents worth.
First to clear up some misunderstandings. I hope to not step on anyone’s toes so if I do I apologize in advance.
1) Our government is a constitutionally limited republic. We are not and have never been a democracy. Unfortunately most Americans and nearly all politicians have forgotten the constitutionally limited part. We have become brainwashed that we are a democracy so majority vote is all that matters. Look into history – democracies always fail. Always.
2) Capitalism is a very poorly understood . By definition is an economic system that functions on the use of capital being applied by free market forces. We have gone through periods when we were a laissez-faire capitalistic society but for the most part those in government like to run things and continually pass laws to influence the market place.
3) Our faith is a very different thing than our government and our economic system. If God had wanted one particular type he would have mentioned it. The only one he mentioned was a system of judges for the nation of Israel but they insisted on having a king like the rest of the world. Even though Samuel warned them of the consequences, they insisted and since that point we have no mention of God requiring or favoring any type of government.
Jesus said Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. The money we stress over is the property of the US government. It is printed by them and controlled by them.
Our focus as Christians is to be good stewards for the talents, skills and gifts that God has given us. To maximize those to be able to follow the commands of Jesus by showing our love for him. We do that by keeping our focus on getting to Heaven and realizing our life here is but a vapor.
We should use our influence to keep our country a Godly country but recognize that an unGodly government does not excuse us from being Godly people. The Roman Empire was anything but a Godly government yet in Romans we see that we are to respect the authorities since their authority comes from God.
Do I prefer a government that limits its influence on our world? Yes I do. Very much so. Do I think it matters to me as a Christian what kind of government we have? No I don’t. We belong to God’s family, his kingdom first. Our allegiance to America, to capitalism to any form of government is a very very distant second.
Once we establish that our allegiance goes to God first, we can discuss which system brings the greatest opportunities here on earth. But that is a very different question and more focused on human nature, economics, and history… not religious faith.
Your reference to the “talent” story in Matt. 25 and the “poor” in Mark 14 to substantiate your point on capitalism is misconstrued. The “talent” story must be understood within its context, “under the rule of God” which begins in Matt 24. Then chapter 25 begins with the story of the ten virgins who were given ten lamps, and then all three servants received talents according to their own ability. You will notice that all of them were given something to work with – equal opportunity and access. That cannot be said of under the current state of our capitalistic ideology.
In Mark 14 the person holding the bag (Judas), was the one complaining about the waste of the expensive ointment and how it could have been used to help the poor. Jesus knew he wanted it for himself. So Jesus statement in verse 7 was a rebuke and an indictment against all those who, like Judas never care for the poor. “You always have the poor with you and never did anything for them”. Please read the whole context and just don’t quote a verse to underline a point.
The servants from the talent parable all had equal opportunity to take action. They did not have equal assets to begin with. This is very similar to every person regardless of the economic system. Capitalism makes it easier than any system for someone with less to begin with to make huge gains. Look at the number of rags to riches stories in our country vs the rest of the world.
Even in today’s limited form, capitalism is definitely not anti-Jesus. We all have opportunities but they require work and risk. Just as in the talent parable.
Jesus rebuked Judas for his greed. He consistently rebuked people in his ministry who were focused on earthly wealth vs heavenly wealth. The poor will always be with us because it is human nature. Many people will not make the sacrifices and take the actions to remove them from the ranks of the poor.
No system of government will eliminate poverty. In our country, our “poor” are rich compared to many nations. While we do have some who live in circumstances that are deplorable, it can barely compare to places such as Africa and India.
Capitalism has given us an overall system wide wealth that cannot be compared to any other nation. What we practice today is going away from the tenets that made our country strong.
The basis of capitalism is ownership of private property which was established in Genesis when God made Adam steward over the earth. That concept is what leads to the greatest gains and the greatest ability to give to the poor.
Howard, you are being a little dishonest in your analysis of those verses. As Scott pointed out, by measure of free will the servants given talents were equal, but they were not given equal starting amounts to work with. They were not even given equal rewards! They were given starting values based on their abilities and rewarded based on what they generated with them. That sounds a lot like capitalism to me and nothing like the redistribution of wealth for “equal opportunity and access.”
Jesus never forced anyone to do something he knew was good. He gave them examples to follow and then allowed them to make a choice for themselves. Socialism doesn’t do that. It’s the use of force to make people obey a moral guideline set by an earthly authority. Not only does that run contrary to everything Jesus did in his ministry, it is also inherently flawed because it institutionalizes morality into as something dictated by a human-run government. Human beings can never be perfect, so neither can our governments. Free will and personal responsibility have to be the basis for our society or it will fail. There is no viable alternative.
Interesting, I have wondered if Christians should be capitalist. I think that is a question that needs an closer look. It’s true the bible does tell us the poor will always be among. Most miracles that are recorded in the bible have to do with psychical and mental health. There are few miracles recorded where people are delivered from poverty. I think our belief in what we will is the case of poverty affects our attitude toward poverty.
Capitalism is two parties engaged in business because it is mutually beneficial to each party, if it wasn’t beneficial to one of the parties, either party is free to not engage in business with the other or to engage in business with a different party (competition). There is nothing unbiblical about this.
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with communism/socialism so long as all participants in the communist system are voluntary participants. If you force people to participate in such a system against their will, the system will only break down, that’s the problem with socialist/communist systems of government.
You can’t force people to be good, that is impossible. God instructs us to work to change ourselves. Never does he tell us to force our will on to others (just like God doesn’t force people to follow him). Economic and government systems will reflect the hearts of those engaging in those systems. If the hearts of the people are after God then the system will flourish, if not, it will eventually crumble.
I agree with you that socialism is not the answer. Maybe we should focus attention on why the master divided the talents the way he did in the first place. He distributed the talents among the servants according to what they had already demonstrated in their prior activities. One servant got ten talents, one got five, and one got just one. Based on the servants’ work ethic, diligence, or excellence, the master had already developed a level of trust for the servants he gave ten talents and five talents to. Perhaps if we make ourselves better, more trust-worthy stewards, we won’t have to look to the government or anyone else for assistance. We will have the confidence that God will be faithful to perform His promise that He will supply all our needs.
well I am african american and a christian and was at some point poor. So I could argue that socialism is better because why shouldn’t everybody have the same thing, and like the parable with the master giving the same about to the workers that showed up first as well as last, gives us an idea of salvation and how God doesn’t judge us by works. HOWEVER I won’t, the thing is, God will allow you to be free, (HE gives the power to get wealth) but if we forget the poor, GOD will judge and remove His blessings from you. So I feel like God is sovreign so He will bless those He chooses as long as we don’t abuse and neglect the poor. PArt of the reasons people who feel that we should ‘redistribute’ the wealth are in power are because we have failed the “least of these” and I believe it is judgement If you give it will be given to you, but if your withhold grain, well, even what you make will be taken away. So there is it.