Primerica – The pros and cons

And to finish James boy. Why don’t you and the others, tell us why you really don’t like us, Primericans. Becaused I know you didn’t get up one morning and tell your spouse, I had a dream that I’m suppose to save the world from a company named Primerica or like you guys like to call it PrimAmerica. Your dreams didn’t make you guys prophets did they?

Why don’t you tell everybody that your either an agent from another company that got brainwashed by your agent boss, or has been losing a lot of your clients by Primerica, or one of your friends or family members joined our company and doesn’t want to hang with or listen to you anymore because your going no where, or joined Primerica and didn’t see eye to eye with the office leadership that recruited you, or even more funny, you probably recruited on and when you found out you had to work and it wasn’t easy to be successful you left like a gazelle being chased by a lion, and last but not least, your probably a person that wants to save the world by just repeating what you hear, and that makes you feel special.
Well let me let you know that Primerica people are totally aware that we will not get everybody to follow our crusade and opportunity, but then again we’re not looking for everybody. And remember not everybody followed Jesus
And in closing. There is one thing that your right on. That Primerica is not the only game in town.
And thats because it’s not a game to play with people’s money and finances and their future.

And definitely because we are in a League of our own. And we’re not in one town, but the World and growing!

God Bless Everybody, even the ones that don’t think like us.
SM

I left PFS becuase I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror anymore. A client who had limited funds asked if I was giving her the best coverage available. I had to say i was giving her what we (PFS) could offer. I had to send her to Zurich at the time. Yes I had to do what’s right. Then I noticed I could have given my family member more coverage for the same money with other carriers. that’s when I asked myself where was my loyalty? Primerica lost and I was dead in the water until I came across a Primerica debate on a mesage board and people hit me with facts, not rah, rah..

I checked out other companies and made a business decision. Yes PFS wasn’t for me. Is it a scam company. No it’s not. The A.L. Williams days are over.

For those that are interested, I forgot an important “feature” of PFS securities commissions…

Securities commissions are paid at the level you were when you *wrote* the trade, NOT at the level you *are* when the client sends the money. So, if you were at 30% when you opened the trade, but your client adds a large amount four years later (maybe now you are at 55%), in the PFS system you would get paid 30%!

In our system (and I think all broker/dealers), you would get 55%.

Which do you think is fairer?

Gideon the Financial services industry is a great industry to be in. Let me just say it’s not for everyone. I do understand some people like their current occupation or have other career goals. With that being said even on a part-time basis a person can make some great income. A person can market to a few people a year or month or whatever and take that income and supplement a retirement plan or to use with some other bills or whatever.

A person may not be into the sales part, well then there’s the business side that may look better. A person can hire some to do what they don’t wish to do and earn from their production. The key is to get licensed for that certain product line so you can be compensated.

If you noticed the examples that Michael has given he has other agents doing production and he is getting paid also from their production. That’s the business side. The great thing about it is people can try it out part-time first and if it’s for them then look furthur in the future. I just suggest for people who are looking at the industry, know your contract and know your options going in and coming out. don’t get emotional about any company, because at the end of the day it’s business and thet’s the way they look at it.

Like I said the industry isn’t for everyone, but the opportunity to so some big things are there. We are in the beginning wave of the baby boomers and there’s going to be a 15 or 20 year period to attack that boom. Do some reasearch..The financial companies are designing products and there’s not enough agents to handle the coming business.

Hey all. I’ve been in PFS for about a year and a half. Before I say anything about my experiences here, I’ll let you know about me.

Number 1: I am a college student @ FIU (Business/Finance Major.) I’m a junior.

Number 2: I researched this company for the first 6 months I was here. YES..I RESEARCHED FOR SIX MONTH ( a bit irrational but I’ll make my point, soon.) I got my licenses (Life & Health & Securities) all before I recruited one person and before I wrote even one sale…FOR ANYTHING!!!

Number 3: I, too am open-minded…through and through.

First, I mention that I am a college student because I hear so many people repeating the same thing about Primerica reps not having knowledge and education to work in this industry. Studying in the field that I am in, I deal with the industry and I’ll tell you something… having a degree has nothing to do with being good in this business. I have learned more about finance and money, working with Primerica, than even some of my graduate friends (PRIOR TO ME RECRUITING THEM

Having an intelligent and tactful baseshop is truly key in this business. Since day one, all I was told is know your stuff, take your time and always do what’s right for the client. There have been only 2 times that I went back to a client and advised then that a portion of their solution didn’t make sense to switch from their currect programs and it was left alone NOT SWITCHED ANYWAY TO MAKE A PROFIT. All of this high-pressure sales tactics and fallacies about our firm are evidently from competitors. How do i Know? because I’ve never met anyone other than an outside loan officer, insurance agent or securities broker who had a detailed argument trying to belittle my firm. How do they have this arsenal of ridicule?
One reason: Firms study their REAL competition…if our firm wasn’t a THREAT to their own business and customer retention, they wouldn’t even know we exist…much less know about the products we have and our compensation plans. Go to Primerica.com. Are we displaying such information in detail on our public websites? And we don’t have brochures or ads laying everywhere. So, how do they get their information? You tell me.

Number 2: I bring up my ridiculous researching project about this firm because I never knew of anything such as direct marketing or network marketing or multi-level marketing until I came to Primerica. My grandmother was in MaryKay and I thought, “oh hell no..I wouldn’t dare do that.” All the boxes and the make-up (which I am a minimalist when it comes to that) but my aunt and my cousins jumped right in because that was their niche. I, on the other hand, am excellent at math and logic and studying so I wanted a career that would challenge that on a daily basis or put my mind to work without boring me to a mid-day nap everyday. So, somehow being a broker came to be one of my options after being a lawyer…which i LOVE, LOVE LOVE law and so I began my “quest.” Along my journey in school I took a summer job in desktop technical support (trying out different things) and met my upline. She was happy, bubbly and that excited me to become friends and all she said was the usual (”Would you or anyone you know be interested in earning an extra $500 to $2000 a month?” — DUH!!! I’m a college student..that was like being rich…lol) So, I got an interview, one on one with the RVP Chris Boyd (Baggiero Hierarchy) ( yes one-on-one’s are called interviews and group sessions are called opportunity orientations…makes sense to me.) So as he was speaking to me, just simply explaining everything…it all made sense and kind of woke me up to the kind of world we are in and the economy’s shape at the time and how it was getting worse. So anyways, I was instantly “sold” on the idea of helping people in this way. However, NO IBA WAS SIGNED OR EVEN FILLED OUT AND NO MONEY WAS SUBMITTED (@ the time it was $199.) I wanted to “think about it ” So, I wanted an opinion from my newest friend kelly- my upline and she was recently recruited (4 months prior)and began to tell me about the licensing and how you get paid and about the events and family feel and everything. So, I went to the next meeting with my $199 check already written out but I didn’t give it to anyone..cuz i wanted to check it out. So, I went and it was unbelievable. The baseshop all piled into the office, smiles on their faces, giving kudos about big sales and excited about how they just helped a family the day before and the checks being passed out and the milestones like a Legg Mason tee for securites licensing or whatever and just the environment and the product examples (real clients recently helped and everything.)
So I was just there to investigate and at the end of the night I handed the check over and was so excited.

I went home and told my parents (negative from the frist mention of Primerica) But I’m a question asker and I demand actual evidence to back up claims that people make – I’m like a lawyer as far as needing info goes-that’s why at 6 after an IQ test I was told I should be a lawyer…lol- and nothing that they said made sense or had any merit. I began my research simply because I knew someone (whether it was PFS or the ‘rents) didn’t have the truth but I was gonna get it in my own time.

So, that’s exactly what I did. Now in looking for my evidence, I dodn’t “google it” and look up the name with scam…you do that with any company and it will come up with a bunch of angry people or competitors guised as previous employees ready to rant and complain about anyt and everything-that’s how people are. So, instead I decided to search for legit sources. I visited other Primerica offices and I searched for any forums such as this that had pros and cons. And I found my fair share of both but I noticed a very unsettling trend about the naysayers. They all were saying the same thing in the same structure, if not actu Which led me to conclude that all these claims of wasted money, anger toward uplines and a ‘failed system’ were derived either from the same competitive source trying to knock Primerica out of the box OR by word of mouth and not through actual personal experiences with the firm. I also looked within the company and could see how even the legitimate claims of failure were simply that. Failure. Primerica offers an even playing field for all reps coming in. Guidelines have been set forth and either you follow those on your journey to RVP and beyond or you quit because itwasn’t for you. Whether it was “too hard” for you, the idea of helping family was too grueling because of your mindset or your baseshop is crappy…by the way -> (if you are there for 6 months plus and no RVP is promoted, no growth is occuring or your RVP is stuck in the same income bracket for the past 2 or more years or not on the leaders bulletins–your baseshop is a crappy one.) Okay fair is fair not every company is right for everyone. This industry is not right for everyone, especially netwrok marketing..if you can’t take the heat, get a job !! I don’t care..YOU DON’T MAKE UP THE WORLD…the world has billions of inhabitants. if you won’t, I’ll find someone who will..SIMPLE.

Point is, anyone with the UNDERSTANDING and common sense to undestand that more goes into a business that having a name and a goal to make money can figure out Primerica and make it work. If you can’t..that’s fine your aren’t gonna make it here anyway.-Move on and live your life the way you see fit.

Now, I’m border line ranting ,so I’ll wrap this up.

As, I said before, I’m open mided…VERY open-minded so I even sat down with several other firms in insurance, securites, lending, franshising, network marketing and found something that was very striking. Primerica has a hybrid busienss model and wrapped into one compnay can’t help but be number one.
Month after month, even in a failing economy like todays, our passing months are steadily being our “best recruiting month ever!!”
We are experiencing 20-30% increases in business as the rest of our entire industry is crumbling was we watch from the sidelines.
We are changing so much.
We got our first $5 million earner last year and are looking to unveil several more by next Convention 2009.
Our company is getting closer to our goal of paying $1 Billion to our sales force.
Our marketing tools are constantly being updated to show current third party raves about Primerica and our dedication to helping the middle class.

And there have been recient rumors about us getting our own ticker and not being with Citi anymore and it’s very true. Back in 93 we acquired Smith Barney and Travelers and shortly after linked up with Citibank to form Citigroup. Since then, our business has rocketed forward and we don’t “need” Citibank anymore. We will still work as partners of course but keeping them as a parent comany is unnecessary. So, by the 2010 when we plan to be a sole-standing company, have the largest sales force in North America, pay over $1 billion to our sales force and who knows, there have been talks of cutting off the RVP position within our firm. So, I, along with many others in our firm are charging forward in pursuit of that position that equals true business ownership and bringing along many of those who want it bad.

Andl last, I noticed a few comments of people who were confused about how we get paid, so here it is.

We are apid commsions from our own sales. We are also paid overrides from those recruits that we hire into our business and field train. The referrals that come from field training appointments go toward building the list of clients that new person has to set appointments with after getting licensed- (p.s. if your field trainer took your referrals- you have a crappy baseshop–switch to a new one… your complaint better be legit…good baseshops don’t accept crybabies) Then, whithin my baseshop, that $99 that you sepnd to join our business-you can get back…by witnessing 6 training sales and hiring 3 people. By the way, doing so, automatically promotes you to district, meaning doubles your compensation level from the beginning and gets you a Palm (as reimbursement for the $99- which actually costs $200 plus out of the RVP’s pocket-who may not necessarily be your field trainer..but who cares-you are now porperly trained and licensed to start business)

Another way you get paid is via bonuses and incentives ( once or twice a year their a pool of money that pays varying bonuses to people reaching certain production goals usually rainging form $300 to several thousand bucks..just cuz you got up and worked.

All in all, I love Primerica and its opportunity. I have great frinds because of it-inside and outside of Primerica. I have a legit shot at earning tons of money. I can be there form my parents and family when things come up. I can be the person they go to for money or help instead of being stuck in a rut. I can pass on millions to my kids and grandkids and have it pass on and on throughthe generations simply be teaching them what to do with their money. I can do so much. And guess what? I can still go to law school adn be a lawyer and start my own firm for the hell of it…with or without a pile of clients, I’ll still be alright and still be happy.

The main thing that attracted me to Primerica is all the damn smiling faces!!! Anyone who has a problem with peopel being happy about thir lives is cynical and/or jealous and not worth the rebuttal.
So choose for yourselves. If you were given the opp to check out PFS, give it a fair overview and don’t be swayed in the wind just cuz a pile of people of people are saying its a scam. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything and lose a potentially amazing life od happiness. Just be you and think for once…getting an outside option about PFS instead of investigation it yourself is like asking a friend if an outfit that looked like crap on them looks good on you…what do you think their opinon will be? negative or positive? you decide.

Ok my fingers are tired but I’m gonna go on POL and see about my standing for our Paradise Island trip.

See you at the top, because the bottom’s too crowded!!!

*that was supposed to say “from under 1 mill a year to over 1 mill a year”

The clients are taking care from the company that offers the products. Primerica reps just get the company together to the consumer and the company takes care of any legal or customer issues.

Seperate the business and the products.

1. Why do many contract with Primerica

They are sold on the concept of Buy term And Invest The Difference. They are shown how people are paying too much for the amount of coverage in their Cash Value policy. Well industry wide only about 2-3% of Term policy’s go to claim, but peope have 100% of dying. Just something to think about.

Also if the crusade is to save peope from hig priced products why isn’t it carried over to the products they offer? Wouldn’t it be in the clients best interest to offer them the most competitive product and let them have more to invest?

2. Then let’s look at he business model. Agents are independent contractors. They hire, train and recruit. Who wons their producers and clients. If they decide to look at oter opportunities hwo carries the weight?

Just know the business. Just know the opportunity..

James,

You may have a point. If only 2-3% of term insurance gets paid out, I like to see where you are pulling your data.
But let us look on a different insurance, how often do people use their car insurance for that little fender damage. Or their homeowners insurance for a little flood. Insurance is suppose to protect you while you have a need. An example of this is You sell you house to someone, do you keep paying for homeowners insurance on it. I hope not. What about that car you traded in for the new one, do you still list it on your insurance, and pay more? I hope not. Insurance is to cover a risk, and teh game plan is for people to have Cash when they are retiring, not an insurance policy, because everyone, with some cerebral ability, cash is king.

You must not know anything about the insurance business. Allstate, State Farms, Farmers, all make you sign a not competitive clause contract. This mean the clients you bring in can’t be touch for two years after you leave. This is standard in any industry of sales.

If you mean who keeps in contact with the clients, well the up line does that. My Agent decided not to do it any more, so I am contacted every 6 months by his direct upline. They keep me informed and give me advice, that if I had broker would have cost me 1,000 of dollars.

It look like James you need to check out the real life business out there, because you would be surprised to find out the real world is different than what you think.

James,

There is many problems with your statements bugt here I will try to show you the truth:

That’s the problem, I did seek out infromation about he real world. I found out an agent can offer products that can fit the need of a client rather than selling a one size fits all program.

I am curious where you think that Priomerica has one size fits all. They have term, which any competent adviser says to have over cash value. They have a mortgage program that gets you out of debt faster, and if you do not have a mortgage they can show you how to get out of debt faster. Now do you knwo anyone else that does this? If you find someoen they will not do it for free. (The debt program without a mortgage is for their clients.)
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I found out many people don’t invest the difference.

So this is Primerica’s fault? But we give them the option, which many other adviser will not do.
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I found out many people don’t carry a mortgage for a full 30 years.

No, they use their house as a piggy bank, and then whine when they run out of equity. Most people never pay off their house since they are not shown how to. Mortgage brokers game is to give you a new loan in 2 to 5 years. Banks job is to keep you in debt. Primerica is the one company doing the right thing for their clients.
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I found out many people are losing money in their investment programs and it may take years to recover.

Until someoen needs the money, it is only value. But then again that is just like the people that have been using thier house for a piggy banks. And most people want to earn more money faster. They want the quick buck. And when they have waited to long to invest and have the money they need, they blame everyone but themselves.
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I also found out that many people accumulate a good amount of savings and then have health issues eat it away in their senior years. So it’s not as easy as they make it seem in an opportunity meeting.

Life is never easy. If it was then no one would have problems. But if you have money invested correctly and over time, you will win. If you start late, you need to take more risk. Remember the Grasshopper and the Ants. (It is a story) Those that prepare are usually looked at like lucky, by those who have not.
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What if a client has a spouse and disability coverage isn’t a consideration, can they offer critical illiness, or can a PFS agent even suggest it?
Funny, my agent talked to me about disability, and I looked into it. I get it from my job considerably less than anywhere else. If you ask the question they can answer.
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What about if there’s a divorce or some requirement for a life policy, can a PFS agent suggest an Annuity and a Return Of Premium Term Policy. From what I understand I guess not. See it’s all about options to fit the needs of the client.

Well, first you are wrong. I have an annuity from Primerica. As for return of Premium, why would anyone want to waste their money on that. If you took the difference and got a low return of average of 8% you will have more money than if you paid for the extra. And if you die in between your family gets all the money, insurance and investments. return of Premium Insurance is the way the insurance companies mke more money off their clients. Since it has been on the market, most competent advisers have said stick with straight term.
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As for your PFS agent who contacts you every 6 months, next time he/she contacts you ask them to research Life Settlements and inform you on the Pros and cons, and if there is a difference between a policy that can convert to a permanent product and their term policy if a Life Settlement was a consideration.

Why would I want to convert my term insurance to a permanent policy? Why waste my money? Unlike some people, I plan on retiring, I guess you are not, since you need to protect your income for your entire life. The only people who thinks that permanenet life insurance is a good investment, are those who sell it. (Wall Street Journal). Since it seems you either sell this garbage, or beleive in it, you need to read some competent advisers. Try Suze Ornam. She made money as an adviser for Prudential, has her licenses. Of course if you do not think she is knowledgeable, then you must be selling that garbage.

Tom do some research. You don’t know what you don’t know.

Hi XRL,

thanks for your comments. I’d like some details about two things you said – I didn’t know about them. Since it’s been almost two years that I left, I haven’t been totally up-to-date.

XRL: “We all know all your clients received their letters of transfer and that not-so-smart thing is shutting down.”

Is the smart-loan program going through changes, or being discontinued?

XRL: “The going price as reported by reuters news is only 7 billion!”

Do you have link to this? I would be very interested in reading more about the “progress” of the sale!

Thanks XRL,

Michael

Enter others like Ed Slott:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJoFaIy27c

I am curious what other companies posted last year? Let us look at all those companies that they say tehy are their competition. But then 544 million dollars after all expenses is nice amount for a company doing in a recession. How many companies are not even around 30 years later?
7 billion is gross.

And by the way the payout has gotten better in the last year not worse. I have seen the RVP and the NSD 1099’s.

James;

You have been tooting this Ed Slot Character alot. Have you ever read his post completely.

He says to invest in company stock. Primerica says to get involved in your companies 401k. This is the easiest way to do it since usually., (Notice I did not say always) the way the company puts their part in . It can be pre or post tax.(This means money is tax deffered or tax free which ever way you set it up.)But we also say some other things.

He says use the ROTH IRA. Primerica suggests that too. Matter of fact they suggest it more than most financial adviser that sell cash value. Want to know why? It is because then the Client is getting the best. If you sell universal life, variable universal, variable life, etc, you get paid more than if you set up mutual funds for them. Plus the money is the clients, so they never have to borrow, they can withdraw. (Sometimes even tax free.)They do not have up to 7 years of the annual premiums as fees.

IS he a smart man, YES. Does he say anything different than what other advisers say, not really. Some of his ideas are not for those with $100 a month to spend on a getting to retirement, but then most people who write books are not going after that crowd. Matter of fact, most advisers that are not really cash value salespeople, ever really go after the middle american family. They do not have the money necessary to make it worth their time. Except for Primerica. My Agent came over when I needed help on my 401k. The person in charge of doing the help was too booked up and was then going on vacation. Now how much did he make on that visit? Nothing. but he earned my trust, and my loyalty.

A couple of things, briefly. And I think I may be too late on this topic to really ad anything.

Most financial rep positions will hire anyone with a proven sales backround and some personality. I started with Northwestern Mutual and I didn’t have a clue about finances. I studies on my own for about 2 weeks to pass the Mo Life and Health and they didn’t have any problem hiring me on with absolutely no college experience related to finance. I later studied for and passed the 6 and 63.

When people talk about making the most money recruiting, its because when someone is hired in, they bring in their friends and family first. Now even if they don’t retain the actual agent they will still retain all or a portion of the business they have brought in and that is the key. There is over a 90% failure rate in the financial rep industry but everyone brings on someone, so the company comes out ahead, even with terrible retention rates.

I’m not going to go into all of your points, but I do agree with some of your last paragraph, about America falling into debt and that being bad for our future, but I would like to hear how Primerica is the ONLY solution. I’d prefer my finances to be handled by someone who does it full time and with a company that financially outperforms its benchmarks, but thats just me.

ON Last thing, I finally got to the website you suggested. http://www.fponline, was not complete. It needed to be http://www.fponline.com. It is a financial services sales website. It talks about how to sell more products to your clients.

This is typically what I get from people who see that I have money and want me to use them for financial products. They call me up and say that I need this or that, and use the pitches that they pay for from these sites. They do not know and you definitely did not know, I subscribe to some of the same magazines, so I will not be taken in by them.

I can only hope that the frenzy that I see with the Mortgage Companies, blows into the Insurance services business. You alone proves that Primerica still has companies out there willing to use any means to deride them. And this competition thinks that the public is naive, but when they get knowledge needed, those that have taken advantage of, or tried to take advantage of them, are hung from their greedy thumbs.

Tom I have seen both sides be it inside Primerica and outside Primerica.

As I stated before your exactly where you need to be. Let me just say this. I’m not Naive or closed minded.
Oh yes I do know a few things about M.F’s, Annuitites,
and other ways of having money managed. I have nothing to prove to you. I mentioned using a Return Of Premium with an Annuity and the concept seemed to get past you.
I mentioned about conversion of a term policy and the benefit if considering a life settlement and it seemed to get past you.

Why should I go into the the difference between Mutual Funds, Annuities and actively Managed accounts? Some of these subjects are beyond PFS agents. If they don’t offer it they don’t need to know about it. Others might feel the need or want to go into those subjects. I don’t. My only purpose is to expose to PFS agents that there are other options. I know what I know and I constantly search for what I don’t know.

As far as people having the same licenses and continuing education being required to maintain a license, there’s quite a bit more to it then that.

Ok Tom your correct. Let me just say sometimes there are situations when a court may require Life Insurance coverage. There is a way to have the required coverage and get all the premiums back when the need for coverage has ended. Is the concept for everyone, no of course not, but it is an alternative.

Primerica does not pay people for helping families. They pay agents to sell products. Nothing Sold=No one gets paid. You seem to be taking this personal. Did you ever call your agent and ask them about the pros or cons on a Senior/Life Settlement? Some think there is a good reason to get max amounts of term.. Now I didn’t say everyone, I said some people.

To me there’s more to the industry than just passing a test. Passing the test is a test of general knowledge. There are many different companies with many different products. Have you ever heard of actively managed accounts? Does your PFS agent select from a scoring model or do they pick individual funds for you? Do they “advise” which funds to choose?

Here’s something to chew on. Considering companies do different levels of underwriting they price their products differently. Then there’s those who use unisex rates and different guarantee periods. Now don’t forget to add in compensation.

There’s a cost for everything. Do some research…

I need to quit this, i’m out of your league on industry and products. When I talk to PFS agents there’s no need to tape record, I just have them read their contract and then inform them on other products they can market with the licenses they have.

Whew you set me straight.

James,

It is getting to be a fulltime job to correct your mistakes. And since it seems that you are not learning, I need to stop throwing pearls before the swine.
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Ok Tom your correct. Let me just say sometimes there are situations when a court may require Life Insurance coverage. There is a way to have the required coverage and get all the premiums back when the need for coverage has ended. Is the concept for everyone, no of course not, but it is an alternative.

It is an alternative that cost more, and the client will hardly ever benefit from it. It is like paying for towing on your insurance, when you have AAA. It is a waste of money. Maybe that is why Primerica they will not sell it?
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Primerica does not pay people for helping families. They pay agents to sell products. Nothing Sold=No one gets paid. You seem to be taking this personal. Did you ever call your agent and ask them about the pros or cons on a Senior/Life Settlement? Some think there is a good reason to get max amounts of term.. Now I didn’t say everyone, I said some people.

You are right they do get paid, but they do not do it unless it is right for the client. I ahve given referrals to my agent. On one of them they did a loan, and there was not any advantages to the client. They said that to them. My Friend called me and said that. When I called my agent and told him he wanted to do the refinance, but he had showed him not to, I was surprised. He said we showed how to accelerate i, but refinancing was not the right thing to do. How many of you fellow mortgage brokers would not have done it. Looking at how many are being indited along with closing down, I would say none.

As for senior/life settlements. This reminds me of the life settlements for aids persons. The companies that sold them made money, but it was not good for the buyers nor the sellers. Since it has a smell of rankness, I have a feeling that is why they do not do it. He did know about it, but he said they were a rip off. Beside, If you follow the plan, you will retire and only need a burial policy if that.
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To me there’s more to the industry than just passing a test. Passing the test is a test of general knowledge. There are many different companies with many different products. Have you ever heard of actively managed accounts? Does your PFS agent select from a scoring model or do they pick individual funds for you? Do they “advise” which funds to choose?

This proves you never really worked with Primerica, and talked to anyone about funds. IF you had you would have known what they do. But I will not educate you on what they do, since you failed to learn when you said you were with them, why should I try to educate you now.
I guess you are naive, just playing dumb. Since every person I talked to at my last meeting I attended knew how they do it, because they have brought a securities licensed agent with them, watched what happened, and then learned, and knew what happened, I guess you must have been that guy they talked about. The one who did not succeed, since he held off doing his training until he got paid, never took any securities professional to his KTs, and never learned the full process. This is on the assumption that you were ever an agent, not one of these people who goes on the board and make noise about Primerica.
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Here’s something to chew on. Considering companies do different levels of underwriting they price their products differently. Then there’s those who use unisex rates and different guarantee periods. Now don’t forget to add in compensation.

There’s a cost for everything. Do some research…

I have done the research. IT seems you never learned when you were there. You are asking me questions that the cash value agent did. Kept pumping me for information since he did not know his adversary.
Term is not the same just like Full Coverage is not the same. They each have different parts some include things while other do not.
But you keep going to the price. As I said, most people will pay for a good meal, for the service, for the fact they do not have to get up to get their drinks. I know it is hard to believe but there are still places like that.
Now could I get it for cheaper, yes but I need to give up something to do that. I have done the research. I have to give up my service I have been getting. See I have a small brokerage account for my stocks. It is around 50,000 dollars in there. I get a call every tiem he wants to sell me something, or when he wants me to sell. SO he can make money. I do not get any other service, like what about your other funds, because he knows about my investing. I do not get the service. I use him since I get a free account through my work. But since I do not get any service that is all I use. Butr I guess you are just like I said, focused on the cheapest.
_______________________

I need to quit this, i’m out of your league on industry and products. When I talk to PFS agents there’s no need to tape record, I just have them read their contract and then inform them on other products they can market with the licenses they have.

The reason why they tape record the conversation is to make sure they do not say half the things you get away with here. You are an unknown person. They have no way of making you accountable for your words. It keeps the lies and the slander down. Since you can’t win at the KT, you will win where you can be stopped on these boards. But that is changing. I hear there are federal laws that make the owners of the boards responsible for anything posted on the internet. This is coming from that suicide that was directly caused by the mother of the ex friend.

————————-

Whew you set me straight.

This proves a couple things:
1. I doubt you are more than an agent who has lost one of many confrontations with a Primerica agent. You lack of knowledge of how they do things is apparent. IT is typical that you attack this way since you can’t win across the kitchen table.
2. That you have no training in Securities. You may know somethings about them, but just like the saying” A little knowledge can be dangerous.” You prove that you are dangerous. And I thank GOD you are not my agent. If you were I would run not walk away and change everything you said. You base you decision on price, not what is best for the client. The extras you see as costly, may make the difference. Terminal Illness rider, is one. After I got my insurance, both of my parents did of terminal illness, both of different type of cancer. Something that did not come up before. Now with it, I can get a portion of my life insurance before I die if I need it ( and it is not a loan with interest penalties.). Something most policies do not have especially if they are cheaper.
3. Your clients are basing everything on price, or at least that is how you sell. These are the same ones that are crying about having an adjustable rate mortgage or a negative amortization mortgage. Yes you pay less, but it costs you in the end, like they are seeing now. How many of your clients are still living in apartments, and not homes isne it cost to much.

James, I am so glad you have decide to stop having a battle of wits, that you are so unarmed for. Maybe you can go get one of your more seasoned agents that might know a thing or too, and have them talk to me. But then again, I am smarter than most, and not as gullable as your clients.

Tom why do you get so personal? You seem to think Primerica is the only company that has a terminal illiness benefit within their policy. Do you understand different companies advance different percentage amounts? Did your PFS agent consider a critical Illiness policy? Did your PFS agent talk to you about the potential for having to qualify for medicaid and the look back periods and when the clock starts for that? The rules have changed.

Here is a good place to get some general knowledge.
http://www.insure.com/articles/lifeinsurance/

Tom the more you type the more you show there are things you just don’t know. What’s sad is your agent should being up certain issues, but as I said before if they don’t know about them, they can’t bring them up.

Here is some info about CI:
http://www.insure.com/articles/healthinsurance/critical-illness.html

Just as some people would not have certain people as their agent , some agents don’t wish to deal with certain clients. It goes both ways.

As closing i’m not having a battle of wits with you. I have nothing to prove to you. It’s your life and your family. You need to do what you think is best for you and yours. If you think Primerica is the way to go, good for you.

James,

You are definitely playing by the attackers play book. I seen it on so many websites it is not even funny.

First you confuse the issue. Through out some websites, that you say something that it does not. An example of this is this Ed Slott guy. I guess you never expected someone to read it, just take your word.

Then they try to incite someone to do something that may get them fired. Now you may have only been there a little while, and never saw anyone that has gotten in trouble but I have seen several agents get reprimands for playing a battle of words.

I ahve give you a place to check out Rip off Reports. See what it says about Primerica.

James, since you were never even in my league as a salesperson, how do expect to win. You are like a gnat buzzing in my ear. By the way Custom Advantage is what I have. They have brought in something new in August 2007. I guess that means that you are unknowledgable. But one thing, do you think all term is equal? I do not think so since you sell on price alone. Example a room at the Waldorf is more than the Econolodge down the street. The difference is what is included. But since you have never seen a nice hotel, let alone a 5 star hotel, why would I take your word for it.

Why not go back to the kiddie pool before you get hurt.

@Tom:

Ok Tom. You truly are an idiot.

Have you been reading my posts above, before you started posting. Instead of looking up my number on the Internet why don’t you JUST CALL ME!

FYI, it is a GrandCentral number (owned by Goolge) and is a service like Primerica’s GoSolo.

My cell is 714.280.7909

Call it.

My office address is: Thomas Financial Group, 1401 N Batavia Street, Suite 201, Orange CA 92867.

Here it is on Google maps: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=105153693795640566834.000438ceeca35b7eed69a&z=19

I’ve leased this office since 2000, when I was a Primerica RVP. I kept the same office.

My business web site is: http://www.thomasfinancialgroup.net

My email is mptpro@gmail.com

or

ceo.tfg@mptpro.com

Go ahead, call me.

Now, that we got the issue of “hiding” out of the way, why don’t you post YOUR numbers!

—–

Tom said, “I have not seen any product better than Primerica! And with my net worth I get approached a lot. But please give me some examples of companies that sell a better product. I love to debunk it.”

Look at my posts above, I don’t think you’ve been reading them. Here are some examples…

LIFE INSURANCE

* Price. That’s easy, PFS is very expensive. They have unisex rates, which excessively penalizes women. At the time this article was written, a 50-year-old male non-smoker could get $200,000 of Term 10 coverage for $38.79 per month with Unity Life; the same coverage would cost $65.84 per month with Primerica. Go here to check rates for almost any carrier (free): http://termcomparisons.cc/
* We have a saying, “replace Primerica Life and invest the difference in American funds”! “In fact, replacement was a perfectly wonderful thing. It forced competition, badly needed and long overdue.” -Art Williams, “Coach” book
* Also, the conversion calculation from annual premiums to monthly premiums is higher with PFS than most.
o PFS: 0.985%
o Banner Life: 0.0875%
* Banner’s policy fee is $50. PFS’ is $75.
* Another issue is rating classes. PFS has three. Banner has five, including multiple for tobacco users.
* Guarantee vs Scheduled. This is the BIGGEST problem with PFS life. Their policies are only guaranteed through 20 years. 25, 30, 35-year policies are guaranteed ONLY for 20 years, and “scheduled” for the remaining time. As far as I can see, no other company even bothers with scheduled any more! Many companies, including Banner, have a 30 GUARANTEED policy. Now, some PFSers will say it doesn’t matter, because MILICO (PFS) has never raised their rates. But, if you were a client and I offered you a truly guaranteed product for 30 years, and PFS offers a 20 year with scheduled, AND MINE IS ALSO CHEAPER, which would you choose?

LOANS

Primerica only offers amortized loans from one company, Citi Trust Bank. They’re rates are high.

They don’t offer interest-only.

As of this writing I can do a 15-year guaranteed rate IO.

I can market a 30-fixed amortized loan for 5.7%

What is Primerica’s offerings?

INVESTMENTS

At PFS you can only market 11 mutual fund families, or less. I can market over 30 and can add any I want. I just send an email-request to my Broker/Dealer.

The biggest difference is variable annuities. There are so many VA product providers and they all have unique features. It is currently a very competitive market. Here is an example: (note: this is not a product solicitation, but for training and business-opportunity purposes only. Do not distribute this to the unlicensed public).

* Hartford VA (older than Citigroup), has 11 American Funds subaccounts.
* M&E is 1.25%
* 5% bonus to the client (slightly higher fee).
* Add an “income rider” (.4 fee), and the client can withdraw 4% to 7% (based on age) of their balance every year guaranteed.

Compare that to PFS/MetLife PrimElite series.

Tom said, “As you know as everyone else, there are people who make money and those that do not. And this figure is a falsehood. Should the ones that decide that they do not want to follow what his up-line says, think it it to hard, or do rather watch tv, are the problem?”

B.S. That is a cop-out answer that every mlm uses because very people make money. In my Agency, people DO make money! I’ve made $51k in one month since I left PFS 20 months ago. My top rep earned over $35k two months ago. Another couple (that was direct to Doug Hartman, struggling), earned over $20k / m, twice this years so far. This is a small smapling.

Again, read my posts earlier, I gave many more examples.

If a PART-TIMER doesn’t earn at least $3,000 I encourage them to LEAVE. At PFS, they squeeze for production until they go broke.

If you think I am exaggerating the numbers, call me on my cell and I’ll the above-mentioned reps on the phone for you. 714.280.7905

Tom said, “. Would any company say go a head change jobs and take everything that you have learned from us and go to the next guy that promises the same if not better life? No company does that. But then again, how could there be a system just like Primerica, unless the systems was a copy. And we all know that copies are not as good as the original.

Ad hominum. So, what’s alternative? Stay where you are at forever?

Is it REALLY true that copies are never as good as the original? Really? Should we all continue using MS-DOS instead of Windows, MAC OS or Ubuntu, just becasue MS-Dos, arguably, was the “original” consumer operating system?

Don’t be silly. And by the way, Primerica is Not the original. A.L. Williams was. And you know how Art feels about Primerica, don’t you?

Tom said, “Since I do not know then legal issues here. I am not a Corporate attorney, but I think it has to do with the fact that Primerica needs to keep control of the offices due to securities transaction law. But like I said I am not sure.”

You are rignt, you’re wrong. It has nothing to do with a legal issue. It is a control issue from PFS/Citigroup. I didn’t learn this until I left.

For those of you reading this, here is perhaps the most important reason for leaving PFS: IF YOU ARE A 1099-INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR AND ARE NOT A “S” OR “C” CORP YOU ARE EXPOSED TO TREMENDOUS LIABILITY! See, if you were a W2 employee then the liability would be on your employer. You are not, hence you are VERY EXPOSED to lawsuits by clients and even downlines. You MUST separate person from your business. And, take a close look at PFSI’s E&O insurance….. the reason it is so cheap for you is that it covers PFSI, not you!

These are the things I never learned while IN PFS.

Tom said, “Michael, Since you failed to read. I am not a primerican, I am a client. Is this what you do with you clients, not pay attention to the fine details. As for other companies, if they are following Primerica lead, why would I work with a copy cat company and not the real thing? But do you sell equal term? O”

You didn’t respond to the actual comments! By the way, it doesn’t matter who you are, these posts are in a public forum, not directed at you personally. I/we who post here, are going off of your comments. Why are you address how I deal with my clients, instead of addressing the issued that a ROP can be CHEAPER than PFS, and have a LONGER guarantee?

I don’t know what you mean by “equal term”? Do you mean “level”? If so, yes.

I am not suggesting you work for anyone, let alone a “Copy cat company” (whatever that is). I AM suggesting that those who are in, or looking at PFS, do so independently because:

1) better products for your clients AND cheaper (not just cheaper, but better).
2) more income for your family, less goes to company
3) many, many, more freedom

All this has been posted already.

Tom said, “but you can’t be better and less expensive.”

Yes, a company can! American Funds is cheaper and far superior to Legg Mason

Hartfordf VA is cheaper and better than MetLfe VA

Banner Life (and many, many others) are better and cheaper than Primerica Life

Many, many lenders have cheaper loans than Citi Trust Bank.

That’s the whole point! Now one may ask how?

Less income for the middle man (PFS and Citi), and less commission to the “big guys” at the top.

Tom said, ” Your phone number is not linked to any business, so it seems you are a lone broker. But let us remove your myths. Prove it. You say you can give FNA for free. Are they the smaller version that Ameriprise tries to pass off as just as good. I have one of those. They are missing debt reduction, the biggest thing that most middle Americans have to stop them from investing in retirement. Does it have all the other things. As most people know, a copy is never as good as the original, and you give them copies of what Primerica does. And then there is the service.”

I already address the phone number issue above. I use a GoSolo-type number just as many PFS’ers do. I am not a “broker” but the CEO of my own financial services agency. And that’s not some fake title. I am incorporated, and pay business taxes in the city of Orange, CA under that name. My lease is in that name. etc. I have 104 agents and override 2 other office (Texas and Arizona).

Well, short of emailing you a pdf of our plan, I can tell you that it is as complete as any advisor of mine wants to to be. They can use any of the tools available from any of the fund companies – they all have them and they are all free. As do many mortgage companies. We do have our own, called a Client Needs Analysis, but most of our guys supplement it with very sophisticated reporting tools from 3rd-part vendors. We never charge a client for those.

Tom said, “By the way, they do American funds too, but Primerica still only starts you at 25 dollars.”

Yes, some people do AMF. In fact, I was one of the RVP who started that trend while I was there. It was an uphill battle.

And you are WRONG Tom. At PFS you CANNOT write a AMF fund for $25. Check it.

Tom said, “FNA are not all equal, just like your better and less expensive term. I have seen several of these free FNA. I have even seen some that they wanted me to pay for. They are not equal. You do not have the same programs that they do, you do not cover the same items they do, and lastly it is a copy. As I have said before a COPY is worth less than the original. Or do you think that is a falsehood.”

Yes, I think what you say is falsehood.

The FNA is VERY simplistic. It just basic calculations you can do on a spreadsheet. Especially the retirement pages (don’t includes taxes, nor inflation DURING retirement), and the debt planning is very anemic.

Tom said, “Price only matters in the absence of value.”

You know who says this? The people who overcharge!

It’s a cop-out comment. The service at PFS is NOT good. Most PFS agent leave PFS and abandon their clients. This is one of the biggest criticisms PFS gets from the rest of the industry, and its true.

And as for value… what IS the “value” in Primerica Life Insurance?

Again, you Tom, nor anyone else responds with NUMBER, EXAMPLES, FACTS AND FIGURES.

Lets see some. If I am a client, why would I buy Primerica Life Insurance?

Why buy a SMART loan?

Tom said “Since you continue to follow the misleading statements about the term, let me go through it the way the contract and not some second hand knowledge. It is guaranteed for 20 years. If they decide to raise everyone that is in your class price at that time they can do it. But it is funny they have been lowering my premium every so often. I am paying less than when I started, but I have more coverage. So since the chance of this happening is slim, it is really a mute point.

As for being cheaper, I begt to differ since I ahve had these sold called agents try to sell me this ROP, and it was more than what I am paying now, it is not worth the change. But then again you do not need to prove it. It reminds me of a saying from WW2. Say something enough, a lie will become a truth. AN Example of this is the WMD in Iraq. It is a lie that was repeated and repeated until everyone believed it as the truth.”

Tom, you are WAY off. As you admitted that PFS’ term is only guaranteed for 20, most in the industry are 30.

Yes, PFS lowers it rates, so does EVERY company, and since most are cheaper to begin with, they STAT cheaper. Now, you said something that is very suspect… “I am paying less than when I started..” hmmmm. The rates only go down if you get a NEW policy. An existing policy’s rates do not go down on their own. They stay the same for the length of the term. So, either you got a NEW Primerica Life policy, or you are fibbin’.

Try calling ING and see about their ROP rates. Now, make sure you base it on the age that you got your Primerica policy, not the age your are now. Alternatively, get a new quote for Primerica Life for your age now. Also, every company has “sweet spots” so it is possible that your particular age the ROP is not cheaper, but it will be close. For women, it is almost always cheaper.

But this is moot point. I just wanted to illustrate that the “bad mouthing” you did about the ROP was misplaced. It is a typical PFS attitude. “If it ain’t PFS, it must be bad”.

Tom said, “It is tax free, because you paid more. But explain to me how does the interest rate of 7% is not taxed?”

Its not taxes Tom. Its also not a loan, because it’s not a cash-value. Again, I don’t market ROP, but it’s not “evil” as most people portray it to be.

tom said, “Also Michael, how many term policies go to the end? What is the percentage of term policies that have to be guaranteed? And since you need to pay for the total amount over the 30 years, you need not let it lapse. What is the policy on lapsing? We all know usually you have 30 days for legal purposes, but what happens if it takes longer? Do you remember what Primerica has done in the past? Clients that have been fooled by other Agents and left hanging. How about the Woman who was told that they could get a better term, and she failed to pass the health test. The agent said let your policy lapse since you are covered. Primerica reinstated the policy even though it did not have to. and then 6 months later paid to the son. Or the 9/11 incident? How they paid claims in 2 weeks, while most companies were waiting to see if they could get out of it. Those are the companies you represent. Aren’t you sickened by the fact that the companies you represent contact the client and ask them to convert their policies to Cash value? I guess you have bigger ones than my agent, since he will not sell for those companies.”

Tom, PFS has one of the worst track records in customer complaints. As I stated in a previous post, just look at the facts. Research your State’s insurance dept and look up Priemrica Life and the complaints ratio.

As per my recollection the company with the best “treatment” of clients and least customer complaints (by percentages) is AIG. Not PFS.

PFS is not magical. They are multi-level marketing company has sells term insurance.

Tom sai, “Again I need to remind you that I am a client and not an agent. I guess you missed that in several of my posts. Since you have just said it and have never proved it..”

Tom, it doesn’t matter who you are, and these post are not for your benefit but those who are following this thread.

What have I not proved? I’m one of the only people who post numbers and figures. You sure haven’t.

Tom said, “The only problem I see is something called selling away. It is what several Primerica agents got tagged by the internal auditors, and legal counsel.”

As you said you are just a client, and I can excuse the ignorance. Here’s how it works… you have to inform your B/D of all outside business activities. It not like we sell products “under the table”! The question is, will your B/D let you? PFSI doesn’t. An independent B/D most surely will, as long as you don’t market the same products that they market (obviously).

tom said, “Wrong again. But then again you are a salesman and not the investor. 24% is of the amount over 3 million. not the whole 4 million. So they have to pay 24% of 1 million or 240,000 dollars and that is if it stays the same. Now a cash value policy on an older person is really expensive. The last one on me was quoted at over $1000 dollars a month or $12,000 a year. now If I lived 20 years I have just paid the same amount that I would have in taxes. But I am only 60. I now pay an additional 20 years and die, If the actuaries are right. I have now paid 480,000 for a policy of 240,000.”

You are right about the amount OVER $3m. My mistake. Now, what if it is $2 million or $3 million over? The point is, DO THE MATH, then figure out the best plan.

Here is something a very success Advisor taught me BEFORE I left PFS and was a catalyst to me leaving: DON’T BE TIED TO A METHOD, BUT AN OUTCOME.

Wise words.

PFS’ers are tied to a METHOD (term insurance only). I am (now) tied to an outcome. If another product, strategy, idea or method means an improved financial situation for my client, then lets do THAT!

Tom said this about me, “Again you are saying this from a man who QUIT/Failed.”

Yup. I agree. It is coming from someone who failed at PFS. Went independent, took his team with him (and others), and is now more successful than he thought was possible (and so are those following him).

What changed?

The man? no

The team? no

The market? no

The changed-variable was going independent.

tom said, “See this is how you show your true colors. Where is your loyalty? You follow the buck.”

Nice way of twisting it, Tom! My loyalty is to my CLIENTS and my DOWNLINES! The “buck” I follow is that for my clients!

I don’t know what else you want to see? More client examples? How about posting your Primerica Life premiums and your investments and your loan, and chances are, I’ll save you money now, and make you more in the future.

Tom said, “THAT’s what I would like to see from the PFS’ers posting on this board. For example, a question no one has answered is the exact guidelines for “Ownership”. Let’s see ‘em…. Since you never gotten there, I sincerely doubt you were in their for 16 Years.

I got my code number in Dec 1989. Was full-time from day one. My upline, a college professor, who was already an RVP in 1989, does NOT have Ownership to this day. I have it now.

I believe the guidelines are:
SVP
3 direct RVPs earning at least $50k
Income over $250k
FIVE years of growth (in life insurance)

You try it.

For all of you following this thread. Just know that YOU can do better, your CLIENTS can do better (much better), and your downlines can do much better as an independent. Don’t tie your clients to one product-provide, give them choices.

I have had a number of you (six, I think) respond to me for additional question (thanks for the kinds words too!). Feel free to call, email or even visit my office if you are in the SoCal area (or Dallas, or Tuscon).

go, go, go,
Michael

Michael It hink I understand why you need to work for yourself. If you worked for me and got caught calling people and idiot on Public boards I woudl ahve terminated you immediately. But then the only person you are hurting is your self.
———————-
Ok Tom. You truly are an idiot.

So Professional. Anyone reading your post now know that you are not a true professional.
________________–
Have you been reading my posts above, before you started posting. Instead of
looking up my number on the Internet why don’t you JUST CALL ME!

Why Waste my time calling an unproffesional person like yourself. SO you can track me down. I never call a person that is not in the same level of professionalism as I am since I expect it. I do hope you treat someone your clients good.
—————————

FYI, it is a GrandCentral number (owned by Goolge) and is a service like
Primerica’s GoSolo.

My cell is 714.280.7909

Call it.

My office address is: Thomas Financial Group, 1401 N Batavia Street, Suite 201,
Orange CA 92867.

Here it is on Google maps: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=105153693795640566834.000438ceeca35b7eed69a&z=19

I’ve leased this office since 2000, when I was a Primerica RVP. I kept the same
office.

My business web site is: http://www.thomasfinancialgroup.net

My email is mptpro@gmail.com

or

ceo.tfg@mptpro.com

Go ahead, call me.

Now, that we got the issue of “hiding” out of the way, why don’t you post YOUR
numbers!

Here is another thing that shows you lack good judgement. I do not even post my last name on the fact that I have money and people want me to invest with them. It is bad enough I do not answer 3/4 of the phone calls from my home because of all the solicitors. Why add more?
————————

—–

Tom said, “I have not seen any product better than Primerica! And with my net
worth I get approached a lot. But please give me some examples of companies that
sell a better product. I love to debunk it.”

Look at my posts above, I don’t think you’ve been reading them. Here are some
examples…

LIFE INSURANCE

* Price. That’s easy, PFS is very expensive. They have unisex rates, which
excessively penalizes women. At the time this article was written, a
50-year-old male non-smoker could get $200,000 of Term 10 coverage for $38.79
per month with Unity Life; the same coverage would cost $65.84 per month with
Primerica. Go here to check rates for almost any carrier (free):
http://termcomparisons.cc/
* We have a saying, “replace Primerica Life and invest the difference in
American funds”! “In fact, replacement was a perfectly wonderful thing. It
forced competition, badly needed and long overdue.” -Art Williams, “Coach” book
* Also, the conversion calculation from annual premiums to monthly premiums
is higher with PFS than most.
o PFS: 0.985%
o Banner Life: 0.0875%
* Banner’s policy fee is $50. PFS’ is $75.
* Another issue is rating classes. PFS has three. Banner has five,
including multiple for tobacco users.
* Guarantee vs Scheduled. This is the BIGGEST problem with PFS life. Their
policies are only guaranteed through 20 years. 25, 30, 35-year policies are
guaranteed ONLY for 20 years, and “scheduled” for the remaining time. As far as
I can see, no other company even bothers with scheduled any more! Many
companies, including Banner, have a 30 GUARANTEED policy. Now, some PFSers will
say it doesn’t matter, because MILICO (PFS) has never raised their rates. But,
if you were a client and I offered you a truly guaranteed product for 30 years,
and PFS offers a 20 year with scheduled, AND MINE IS ALSO CHEAPER, which would
you choose?

Again you are talking cheaper. I can always stay cheaper than 5 star hotels, but why sacrafice quality and service. You and James look like the Bobsy Twins with we are cheaper. Cheaper is cheaper. I pay for service. I am sure you can’t figure that out.
———————

LOANS

Primerica only offers amortized loans from one company, Citi Trust Bank.
They’re rates are high.

They don’t offer interest-only.

First, their loans are based on getting you out of debt faster. Something most banks and mortgage companies doo not do. Most banks and mortgage companies will try too sell you a new loan 2 to 5 years laters. Primerica Loans are based on paying off faster and getting out of debt. So if you pay higher interest but do no need to pay for the service of getting out of debt faster, which is better? Give you some numbers, If you are going to pay 300,000 dollars for your house totally or 200,000, which is better? Now since I am not an agent I can’t give you real numbers but then they only do a loan if it is in the good of the client. Not waht most mortgage companies do.

As for interest only: It is only in the Banks or the company holds the note interst to do interest only loans. It is banking on increasing the value of the house. Now that we are in a Recession, those peopel with interest only loans will never own it, and will be paying for it for a long time.
But then the Broker makes the money on the loan, and that would be you. I wonder why you suggest it.
And Please do not use the fact of buyign properties for rental or flipping. Those clients are not the ones Primerica goes after. And those are the ones that are hurting now the market has crashed.

———————————-
INVESTMENTS

At PFS you can only market 11 mutual fund families, or less. I can market over
30 and can add any I want. I just send an email-request to my Broker/Dealer.

I am not sure about you but your information is still lacking. They do have any and all. They handle American along with several others. They are not limited like you say.
——————————

Tom said, “As you know as everyone else, there are people who make money and
those that do not. And this figure is a falsehood. Should the ones that decide
that they do not want to follow what his up-line says, think it it to hard, or
do rather watch tv, are the problem?”

B.S. That is a cop-out answer that every mlm uses because very people make
money. In my Agency, people DO make money! I’ve made $51k in one month since I
left PFS 20 months ago. My top rep earned over $35k two months ago. Another
couple (that was direct to Doug Hartman, struggling), earned over $20k / m,
twice this years so far. This is a small smapling.

So I guess what I can say about your agency is that you take from Primerica. You must love their training programs. Because you are reaping from them. You remind me of a company that was my competition, was trying to steal my sales staff. We had a meeting told the staff if they wanted to leave go. Out of the 5 that left 3 begged to come back. Just cause they make money does not make the professional or ethical.
———————————-

Tom said, “. Would any company say go a head change jobs and take everything
that you have learned from us and go to the next guy that promises the same if
not better life? No company does that. But then again, how could there be a
system just like Primerica, unless the systems was a copy. And we all know that
copies are not as good as the original.

Ad hominum. So, what’s alternative? Stay where you are at forever?

Is it REALLY true that copies are never as good as the original? Really?
Should we all continue using MS-DOS instead of Windows, MAC OS or Ubuntu, just
becasue MS-Dos, arguably, was the “original” consumer operating system?

Now you are being an IDIOT.
MS DOS was a disk operating system (DOS). It ran the disk drive.
The operating system out today run not only the disk drive but many other things. It is like comparing term from Primerica in the beginning to the term offered now. Totally different.

—————————

Don’t be silly. And by the way, Primerica is Not the original. A.L. Williams
was. And you know how Art feels about Primerica, don’t you?

Art was then one who sold and made Primerica, the same program was installed then was installed now. Art does nto liek what happened to Primerica since he did not have any control. It is like having a chikld that is now an adult, you never like what they always do, but you have to leave it in their hands.
—————————

Tom said, “Michael, Since you failed to read. I am not a primerican, I am a
client. Is this what you do with you clients, not pay attention to the fine
details. As for other companies, if they are following Primerica lead, why would
I work with a copy cat company and not the real thing? But do you sell equal
term? O”

You didn’t respond to the actual comments! By the way, it doesn’t matter who
you are, these posts are in a public forum, not directed at you personally.
I/we who post here, are going off of your comments. Why are you address how I
deal with my clients, instead of addressing the issued that a ROP can be CHEAPER
than PFS, and have a LONGER guarantee?

I don’t know what you mean by “equal term”? Do you mean “level”? If so, yes.

Well First if you do not pay attention here one has to think it goes on in your entire life.

As you know equal does nto mean level, or I would have used the term level. Equal means equal. Do you need a Definition? I hope not since it is a simple word.
Look it up and then see.

————————–

Tom said, ” Your phone number is not linked to any business, so it seems you are
a lone broker. But let us remove your myths. Prove it. You say you can give FNA
for free. Are they the smaller version that Ameriprise tries to pass off as just
as good. I have one of those. They are missing debt reduction, the biggest thing
that most middle Americans have to stop them from investing in retirement. Does
it have all the other things. As most people know, a copy is never as good as
the original, and you give them copies of what Primerica does. And then there is
the service.”

I already address the phone number issue above. I use a GoSolo-type number just
as many PFS’ers do. I am not a “broker” but the CEO of my own financial
services agency. And that’s not some fake title. I am incorporated, and pay
business taxes in the city of Orange, CA under that name. My lease is in that
name. etc. I have 104 agents and override 2 other office (Texas and Arizona).

I am curious are you licensed in California. You name did not come up in any search.
———————–

Tom said, “FNA are not all equal, just like your better and less expensive term.
I have seen several of these free FNA. I have even seen some that they wanted me
to pay for. They are not equal. You do not have the same programs that they do,
you do not cover the same items they do, and lastly it is a copy. As I have said
before a COPY is worth less than the original. Or do you think that is a
falsehood.”

Yes, I think what you say is falsehood.

The FNA is VERY simplistic. It just basic calculations you can do on a
spreadsheet. Especially the retirement pages (don’t includes taxes, nor
inflation DURING retirement), and the debt planning is very anemic.

Again, You are wrong. But then again you did say you think. I bet you say that when you are caught making big mistakes.
By the way, I have seen the different FNA. And yes they may be done ina spread sheet, but then again you need to be an accountant to figure it out. It is great to confuse your clients, not good if you want to educate them. Which one do you do Confuse or Educate?
———————————

Tom said, “Price only matters in the absence of value.”

You know who says this? The people who overcharge!

It’s a cop-out comment. The service at PFS is NOT good. Most PFS agent leave
PFS and abandon their clients. This is one of the biggest criticisms PFS gets
from the rest of the industry, and its true.

And as for value… what IS the “value” in Primerica Life Insurance?

So you are telling me all those people that stay at the Ritz, are just over spending their money. They should stay at the budget motel.
And as you said the agents leave. But you must ahve editted the fact the original guy that helped me was gone. His upline is who helps me. He picked up the ball. May be you did not do that, but then who is to blame? I can only see what you are saying here, you had to leave Primerica. You sound just like the bad car salesman, always moving every 6 months, because he has screwed to many people. You jsut did not do the proper follow up.
—————–
Again, you Tom, nor anyone else responds with NUMBER, EXAMPLES, FACTS AND
FIGURES.

Why buy a SMART loan?

Well let us see. Most people have refinanced their home several times. They want to finally own the property they have been paying for 15 years and still have 30 years to pay. They want to save more money, and can’t do it with out a Plan.
But then again you do it cheap. You might not get these clients. Since you focused on Interest only loans, you must not be looking at people who want to own their property but really rent a bigger place. (Interest only is another term for renting with non of the benefits. Like not having to pay for the plumbing or the lawn care, or anything else.)
———————–

tom said, “Also Michael, how many term policies go to the end? What is the
percentage of term policies that have to be guaranteed? And since you need to
pay for the total amount over the 30 years, you need not let it lapse. What is
the policy on lapsing? We all know usually you have 30 days for legal purposes,
but what happens if it takes longer? Do you remember what Primerica has done in
the past? Clients that have been fooled by other Agents and left hanging. How
about the Woman who was told that they could get a better term, and she failed
to pass the health test. The agent said let your policy lapse since you are
covered. Primerica reinstated the policy even though it did not have to. and
then 6 months later paid to the son. Or the 9/11 incident? How they paid claims
in 2 weeks, while most companies were waiting to see if they could get out of
it. Those are the companies you represent. Aren’t you sickened by the fact that
the companies you represent contact the client and ask them to convert their
policies to Cash value? I guess you have bigger ones than my agent, since he
will not sell for those companies.”

Tom, PFS has one of the worst track records in customer complaints. As I stated
in a previous post, just look at the facts. Research your State’s insurance
dept and look up Priemrica Life and the complaints ratio.

I am curious where are you getting your knowledge on customer complaints. I have seen the post from competition, but even teh Rip Off report says no other Insurance comapny has done what they have done.
I know that the competition has had problems. Usualy with Twisting and churning.
—————————-

Tom sai, “Again I need to remind you that I am a client and not an agent. I
guess you missed that in several of my posts. Since you have just said it and
have never proved it..”

Tom, it doesn’t matter who you are, and these post are not for your benefit but
those who are following this thread.

Well if you can’t read then why should we follow your lead? I mean you did not know the difference between equal and level. Also you lack the skill of spell checking constantly. My fellow sales people have fun with people who can’t use a simple tool as spell check. I should send your post around the office when I am back there.

By the way knowing who you are talking to, KNowing your audience is key to sales. You missed that one badly.
————————————-

Tom said, “The only problem I see is something called selling away. It is what
several Primerica agents got tagged by the internal auditors, and legal
counsel.”

As you said you are just a client, and I can excuse the ignorance. Here’s how
it works… you have to inform your B/D of all outside business activities. It
not like we sell products “under the table”! The question is, will your B/D let
you? PFSI doesn’t. An independent B/D most surely will, as long as you don’t
market the same products that they market (obviously).

Selling away is different than Selling under the table. But then you problably thought you were talking to some of your clients, because they need to be stupid to follow anything you say.

Selling away is when you send a client to a competitor. You do not need to get compensated but you still get the penalties.

Selling under the table is something totally different where you sell something you are not supposed to be selling. You have to get paid for it. Big difference but something most people do not know about it.
———————–

tom said, “Wrong again. But then again you are a salesman and not the investor.
24% is of the amount over 3 million. not the whole 4 million. So they have to
pay 24% of 1 million or 240,000 dollars and that is if it stays the same. Now a
cash value policy on an older person is really expensive. The last one on me was
quoted at over $1000 dollars a month or $12,000 a year. now If I lived 20 years
I have just paid the same amount that I would have in taxes. But I am only 60. I
now pay an additional 20 years and die, If the actuaries are right. I have now
paid 480,000 for a policy of 240,000.”

You are right about the amount OVER $3m. My mistake. Now, what if it is $2
million or $3 million over? The point is, DO THE MATH, then figure out the best
plan.

Here is something a very success Advisor taught me BEFORE I left PFS and was a
catalyst to me leaving: DON’T BE TIED TO A METHOD, BUT AN OUTCOME.

Well those might be good for people who bounce around and go form place to place. But for those that believe in loyalty, I woudl not follow you anywhere. Loyalty is a good thing. I guess you parents failed to teach you that. It is something lacking in most people. It is also the reason why we have the mess we have today.
———————–

The Saying comes to Mine. If you lay down with dogs you will get up with fleas.

Also if you try to have conversations with peopel of limited means, they will drag you down to there level and beat you with experience being there.

It has been fun but since this is now taking time from my vacation. and these two guys are definitely being missed by their respected villages, I need to go.

By the way my vacations are paid for by my investments, and the knowledge given to me by my agent. IF you wish to follow these two off the deep end please go ahead. I will be only laughing at them like I do the people who have been using their homes as piggy banks and now are crying that they are going to lose them. I believe in personal responsibility, and loyalty. Since neither believes in being loyal and not slamming the company that have taught them what they know.

Good Bye.

Ira you say” I don’t think that the long term potential verses the up front committments can be matched anywhere.”

My question is what have you compared what you have found with? I’m not attacking you company, it’s the statement. You see I use to think the same way. It’s kind of like saying McDonalds hamburgers are the best without trying Wendy’s or Burger King.

Tom…
Oh man back to the ROP issue…
You call ROP bad only because you can’t sell it (I am sure if you had it you’d be singing another song).
Of course whatever they teach you at that office is designed to sound like a rational answer. After all, you don’t really want it to be good because you don’t have it. Get it?

You seem to forget that due to your company’s extremely expensive term that ROP is same price or cheaper than your term in any comparable client rating.

So considering that the ROP company would pay out the same death benefit upon death and the cost is same or lower than your term…

Exactly how is it that you can do better?
I mean you could not do any better with your term if they die during the covered period and you can never give them guaranteed ROP in addition to their retirement accounts if they live (ding, ding, ding).

In order for your argument to hold water you would have to reduce your premiums nearly 50% on women and 30% to 40% on men and also have guaranteed level premiums beyond 20 years!

At some other point someone seems to think that ROP is taxable…
Premiums are after tax dollars (cost basis) therefore a return of premium is not taxable since what is being returned is the cost basis. Lump sum, tax-free.
Please stop saying that I sell whole life. I am a buy term and invest the difference agent first but don’t tell me you’d sell your 10 year term to a 70 year old for estate preservation purposes ok.
If you are limited to one company that makes you a salesman and as such you must sugar coat your products beyond objectivity. I am under no obligation to worship any company.

Thanks,
XRL

FYI,

AIG now has a 35-level, guaranteed term! PFS’ is 20 years.

One more nail in the coffin, that is PFS Life Insurance.

I finally added PFS commissions to my calculator. Note: we get 100% of our commission up-front. PFS’ers only get 75% upfront, and the rest later.

Check out my commission calculator here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pYt1eYCH5CNgQW0AlMlI5eQ

For all that watching this thread, “tom” never called me, nor emailed, even after he claimed my phone number was bogus and that I was not “real” etc, etc.

Tom at certain years depending on the policy a client
can cancel a ROP and get some money back. It’s not an all or nothing thing.

Keep posting..

James If you continue to pass off your opinions as fact, you will only get your self into deeper trouble. Let me clarify your errors again.

I never worked for them however I did talk to them about being employed there.

Since you never worked with them how can you give any information about the company? It sounds more and more like the people who post about Primerica on Rip-Off reports. An agent who has lost several clients to a company that is better. Until you have been with the company you can’t say what truly happens. By the way in past posts you have said you were an agent. Which one is it?
————————

You are actually signing up with them for a fee and the process starts. You are told you are a bussines owener. I basically found out that it is a MLM. A lot of things are Mary Kay, Amway, and a lot of insurance sales are the same. You get an override when people below you sell a policy. That’s not the issue.

Well You are wrong again. You are not signing up with them for a fee. You are placing a deposit down to start your business. This deposit is refundable, something you never say. It also covers your expenses while starting your business. It covers your licenses, including Life, Health and Disability, Mortgage appointment, Securities, Primerica Prepaid legal, and the ability to get paid on referrals for Auto and Home owners insurance. ( They did this because that way Primerica, and Citi do not have to take the financial risk of doing the insurance, but still gets the best deal for their clients. Matter of fact many of the major carriers were begging to get into this.)

You are a business owner but I will cover that below.
As for being a MLM, do you understand the only difference between a JOB and a MLM is that in a MLM you have a chance of being the person on the top of the pole. IN a job you do not have the chance to be that. And why are MLM bad? It gives you a system to follow. It gives you the ability to know what to do? It gives you backing that most companies do not give you. It also requires you to take no risk, except time. ANd most people waste that watching TV. Most people who work with with Primerica, and I am not saying those that say they work it but really do not do what is required to succeed, even if they leave have more knowledge than the regular guy. Did you know when I get approached to buy something regarding Insurance, I usually have more knowledge on it than the Salesperson. This is because of my relationship with Primerica.
——————————

I am an independent part-time non-captive licensed agent. When I first was being recruited by Primerica, I was led to believe that I was an owner of my own business. I have found this misleading and this is my opinion from what I being was told. If you leave Primerica you do not get to keep your own “downline”, you can not contact the clients that you sold policies to and to be sucessful you must recriut.

ANd this is different than any other business? IN my business we sign a non-compete clause. This means we can’t take any clients from the business. Now it is there for the company so that they do not lose the business that they have paid you for. being part-time I bet your present broker will through a fit, and send his lawyers after you if you tried to take them. I can even bet you signed a clause but did not know about it. Most brokers do this so they do not lose the clients they have.
——————————

The comissions are low compared to the company that I have now. You are only allowed to offer what Primerica sell.

And this is bad why? If I go to Macy’s I can only buy what they offer? And with all the products out there and the companies that are having so much problems, I like having my funds watched over by a professional. I like my Insurance being handled not by the cheapest but by the most competent. But most people are not here to make lots of money, but somethign to help them along the way.

But if you are paid more in commissions where doe sthe money come from? Either one of two places, the company, or the client. Either is not good. If the company pays more they have less money to service me. It the client has to pay, then it is higher. But you kept saying you are cheaper. So basic economics say that the companies you work for, either pay to much and will ahve to short cut on services, or are possibly going out of business. Either way they are not good companies.
———————–

My understanding is that Primerica offers unisex products where male and females have the same premiums. That does not make sence because females live longer than men. The females should have cheaper premiums.

Again you are spouting opinions and not facts. In the past women have lived longer about 7 years. Less stress in their lives. Now it is more likely 3 to 4 years more. Should they be more cheaper. Well I can see why you only base everything on price.

Remember Price only matters in the absence of Value.
—————————

I have the ability to offer any product or use any company that I choose as long as I am licensed to sell that product. I have the ability to offer more than just life products. I can offer canser, critical care, LTD, accident, annuities, and more.

Again you do not know what you are talking about. Primerica does annuities. As for Cancer (Look at Spelling), accidental and the other policies that you can sell, they are usually worthless. Any competent adviser says to stay away from Cancer policies since they are so narrow that they are not worth the policy. Accidental death and dismemberment is worthless, since it pays on 1 out 1,000 policies. I have already clarified LTD to you and you still keep bringing it up, I guess you do not remember that. LTD is something you should get from work, and not from your neighborhood salesperson who is trying to make more money off you.

——————

I can assist in helping people get mortgages.

Are these those mortgages that are crippling the economy? Michael said an interest only loans, which is great for people wanting to flip the house, but then again that is why a shack cost 1.2 million in Orange County.

But then again Primerica can do the same thing, but when it came to investigations, Primerica will not have to worry since all the new laws that are going into affect, they have been doing.
———————–

I do not have to give up a leg to be promoted.

And you do not get any legs. Something you keep forgetting is you give up one leg. But for everyone else that you help to train, and usually their legs too, you get to keep a leg. Would you give up 10 people to gain 100, 1000, 10,000? Now James, I know this may be hard to understand but if you spent a little more time investigating you would know this. I guess you never really investigated this at all.
———————

I do not have to recruit.

And you will always be a salesperson. The dream of Primerica is leveraging your time. Now you might want to look up this quote from Andrew Carnegie. It said I rather have 1 person of 100 men than 100% of one. All smart business owners want freedom of time. They look forward to the time when they do not need to work 16 hour days, have their kids work. You are self employed, and because of that you will have to work to make money. Honestly they can go work anywhere and get your compensation. The only thing is that Primerica is offering them a way to leverage their time.
BY the way, if you want to sell your business, you ahve to find someone willing to pay for it. Primerica RVP’s usually have several offers for their business.
—————–

I have no quotas to meet.

Again, You do not know Primerica. They work when they want, and when they do not want to. And the fun thing it is up to them. Now when you go full time and you are the Donkey pulling the cart, you have to make money. And since you do not have a team that helps you with over-rides, you need to think of yourself first, and client second.
—————-

I do not have to give my trainer my first 5 or 6 sales in order to learn the business.

Ok but in learning how to do the business, And they give up 5 to 6 sales, they get 25 to 60 warm referrals, and learn how to get them each time. Now I would trade 5 sales for 50 any day of the week. And then you can ask your down-line to do the same. It is called leading by example. Since it is you the lonely donkey pulling the cart, you have no one to lead. But then you miss something since you have never worked with them. You give 5 to 6 sales, and then they keep coming with you until you feel you do not need them. They do not get any of these sales. Now I can understand that you might never saw this since your opinions are from looking in from the outside. But then again they are wrong.
———————-

They do offer to help you to get your Life license for free, but taking into consideration the low commissions, captive products, and recruiting pressure, isnt it better to get your own license, E & O insurance, and be responsible for yourself.

Well let me go through the list of problems here. First you do not just get your Life, health and disability license for $99. You get the total amount of licenses of close to 2,000 worth for $99. IS that a good deal. As for Errors and Omissions insurance, that is something independent brokers need, not captive agents need. And it usually is pretty costly. I bet you can share your payment plan with us.

So it cost you, the independent, over $2000 to get the same things it cost the Priemrica agent, $99. You have a yearly expense of office space, postage, overnight delivery, insurance for office, insurance for E and O, and lawyers if you get sued. Primerica includes all this. And since this is something most people do not know they want to do, it will cost them considerably more to go your way. And how many fail, many, since they do no have the support system in place. Why would you suggest anyone to go this way, unless you know of the failure rate and want to keep the competition down? Pretty smart of you, to bad you got found out.
———————-

If I want to do well I am responsible for my own actions. Talk is cheap. I have heard a lot of negativity about Primerica and I do not wish add to my hear say.

Funny you have been doing this for months now. I am curious, do you say the same thing to your clients with a straight face.
———————

In my opinion I believe that we “insurance agents” have a moral obligation to actually give the client the best service and products available and if you can only sell one product its had to be competative.

I am so glad you said this. You know now you have to join Primerica. I have already said that there is only two ways to give more to the salesperson and not have higher prices, which you said your products do. They need to either cut cost in servicing, and we all see this with jobs going over seas, having wait times extend until hours, not getting the good service we deserve, or they make the client pay more. SInce you have said your products are less, then it has to be the first thing. Service is not there. Also if the company is not having enough money or have enough in reserves it becomes in solvent. I am having trouble right now with CompUSA and their insurance plan I bought. I am not getting the service I deserve, they can’t find my plan, and have no record of it. this is because when they bought the insurance part of the business, they did it cheaply and did not do all the work needed. This is a little computer problem, not the money I plan to to replace my income, if I die early.
As for giving me the best service, I have been given better service than any of the companies that hold some of my money.

As for the best products, only the fool chases after the next best thing. The smart man waits until they have all the kinks out so they can get the best return.
————————-

Primerica is a legal company and offering a service to their clients. I believe that I have found a better system for me and my clients. I am not her to bash Primerica. I firmly believe that I can offer a better products and services for my clients.

Again these are your opinions. They have little to no basis in fact. You are mistaken by many of the things you have posted here. You have continued to slam Primerica and are a typical agent out Primerica. I bet you have lost many clients to the better system of Primerica.

I do this because I have a passion to really help people and when I get the mind set of commissions are more important that peoples futures, I then must leave the industry.

You need to leave now. You have said constantly that you get paid more than Primerica agents. You may feel this is not money hungry, but anyone reading this, knows it is. By the way, IF you own a company that paid it salespeople more, where would you get that extra money from? Another place in the business, your shareholders pockets, or maybe your money since you are the owner.
________________

That was my Primerica experience.

What experience? You say it is not a business. But then again The IRS says it is. Who are we to believe? You yourself said you never joined them, just looked in form the outside. Since I have been to several meetings every year, since I am a client, I can tell you that you do not have a clue, on what Primerica is, does, or how it works. If this is how you work with your clients, I can see why you are losing them to Primerica agents.
Your way costs hundreds of dollars more, has no backing or support, does not give you anything better, but many things worse. It almost guarantees failure.
___________________

If you have any questions you can email me at investinginfamilies[at]yahoo.com. I do the insurance part-time and it woks great for me. Primerica just was not my cup of tea. I wish everyone in Primerica well.

Well Here it is the advertisement. Call me for a quote. Call me for a sale.
I guess it would not be yoru cup of tea. But since you do not know anything about it, and your post proves it, I do not think you even know what you are talking about. One thing I noticed in your posts is the lack of knowledge you have of the company. Since you are an agent looking in from outside, and usually those agents are here to bash it( NO matter what you say at the end, you are bashing.). And then you place your email address here to gather business. Maybe you might want to proof read your post. If this is an indication of how you run your business, pay for the lower deductible on the E adn O insurance, it will save you money in the long run.

James,
You know what concerns me more than the value you bring to your clients is the fact you do not spend any time proof-reading your posts. Did you know that the red underline means their is a problem. But then again it scares me if this is the care you place on your words, what about your work?

But that is just my pet peeve. Let me address your points.
————
Tom i’m sure you understand that anyone can post with any name. At one time was a Primerica agent. Like I said before keep posting.

I am glad, but the person made the same grammar and spell mistakes you did. You can see how someone of intelligence can make the mistake.
————

There is a difference between LTD from an employer and an individual policy.

Yes there is cost of the policy, something you harp on. The fact that you lose money, by over paying. And what is the value you bring? I will not go into that.
———

Yes even tax considerations.

You are forgetting that the same tax considerations is on both policies. The only good thing about the one you buy outside is that you take it with you. Now the savings point on it is immense since you are getting it on your own record. Not on your companies’ record. Now I know I said what Andre Carnegie said, but here is a similar one. I rather get my insurance based on 100 people, than off me. Then the risk is based on the 100 not on me. If you do not understand this basic thought on underwriting, please talk to some one who can make you understand.
——————-

When a captive company (Primerica) does not require E/O, whose best interest are they looking out for?

Well, by your example, Health Insurance as a benefit is bad. And Workers Comp is also bad. Key Insurance is bad too. Since all these benefit the company is some way. Having some one else pay for the E and O for a starting business is great. The same with having to rent office space, pay for delivery of the all policies and all mailing and such.
—————————

Let me just say it so you will understand. The “James posting at July 26, 2008 @ 9:25 pm” is not me. It’s another James.

I am sorry but both of you have spelling issues along with not truly understanding Primerica. You can see how I can make that mistake.
————-

Also why is it ok for Primerica to consider saving people money on their Home/Auto, but not on Life.

Compared to what? Stripped down term. Let me compare it to something you might be able to understand. Comparing a product I sold in the past, Cars. You never would compare a Yugo to a BMW. But they are both cars. You would not even place them in the same category. Just like your stripped down term, with stripped down service, and stripped down value, is not equal to Primerica.
———————

For a person who is just a client you seem to drink from the same kool-aid pitcher.

As for drinking for the Same kool aid pitcher, I am curious is this how you handle people showing you how you make mistakes.

You remind me of a person that bad mouth Primerica. I played innocent and set up an appointment with him. I have my agent come too so that he can refute the claims. The agent came in and was surprised when he saw my agent. I asked him to repeat what he said about Primerica. He staled and stalled. Siad he needed to go to his car. We waited five minutes and could not find him. We called him and he still has not returned my calls.

Like I keep telling you Price really only matters in the absence of value. I have given you several examples of that with Primerica and others. Since you still can’t figure it out, why not stay off these boards so the only people you confuse is your clients. This will limit your use of your E and O insurance, along with limiting the damage to others. I am wondering if you can get sued for the errors you place here?

I after reading a number of posts, and not responding, I would like to make it official that tom is clueless.

By his own admission, he is “just” a client, and not in Primerica nor in the industry of financial services. By his assertions it is evident.

In addition, he is not a very nice person.

He attacked me personally, claiming I was not “really” in financial services, don’t have an office, working out my basement etc.

Yet, when I publicly published both my voicemail and cell phone, my email, my office address, links to my business photo album, I hear nothing. The real reason he won’t call me is lack of courage.

Then, he attacks James personally and his spelling. That’s the best he can do.

Those that are reading this, please know that tom truly does not know the facts, he is twisting them, and making himself look ridiculous to those who know better. In fact, he is an embarrassment to Primerica.

Examples include his complete misunderstand of ROP term.

And after posting that AIG have a 35-year guaranteed term, his best retort is that he doesn’t need it! Well, duh, then don’t get it! However, other people do. Primerica sells a 35-year term, except it is only guaranteed for 20 years, and costs MORE!

Also, his silly and wrong, comment regarding commissions. Most of the companies that I represent (such as AIG and Banner), advance 100% first years commission (as opposed to just 75% as PFS does), then he claims that makes them riskier. Huh?

Ever heard of reserves? Here’s how is works, readers. The insurance companies are mandated by State Insurance Departments to keep policy reserves and commissions SEPARATE. They cannot use one for the other. So, if a company pays annual, 75%, or monthly commissions, it has NOTHING to do with the viability of the company’s claims-paying ability. It s merely an issue of whether the company wants to pay out upfront, or not.

The point is that he spews these half-truths about almost every topic as if he knows – he doesn’t.

I choose to ignore him.

Oh, whenever you hear a salesperson say this… “PRICE ONLY MATTERS IN THE ABSENCE OF VALUE!!!!!

Run.

Only those who have an expensive and inferior products resort to this nonsense.

Redirecting back to the issue of this thread…. you can do better for your clients outside of Primerica. And you do better for yourself outside of Primerica. At the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

By the way, I received my $100,000-income ring last week! And, that’s in just SIX months! Jan – June!

Team, it REALLY woks MUCH BETTER as an independent. There is no compelling reason to market Primerica products, nor to work for them.

Check out the pics here: http://picasaweb.google.com/ceo.tfg/PCM2008SummerSummit

Also, the group picture you see was last week in Denver for a leadership retreat. I am the fourth from the left, with the white vest. To my left and right (the men) are both former RVPs in Primerica. The pretty lady to my left is my girlfriend. She earned $37,000 last month.

The right decision for your clients, and your downlines, is obvious, isn’t it?

LOL

Tom what if a PFS client wanted a 65% or even an 75% terminal illiness benefit? What do they tell the client?

This is just an example for the PFS reps. who read this board. I’m sure you are told about the benefit of your TI benefit. Do you know an indpendent can offer this product.

https://www.allianzlife.com/ProductsServices/TermLife.aspx

This is just an example of the benefit of being independent and having access to many different carriers and products.

This is from memory, but I think Illinois mutual has a Terminal Illiness benefit of I think 75% of the face up to 250K..Get this they even pay renewals on their term policy. http://www.illinoismutual.com

Yes an individual agent can contract with them directly. All it takes is a license. https://agent.illinoismutual.net/ Check it out.

This isn’t by any means a recruitment for any company. It’s just examples of the many options available to a licensed agent. Should we go into Med sups? That’s more potential income that you may be missing out on being in a captive enviroment part-time at that.

As we know today there is no such thing as job security. Now as a licensed Life/Health agent being in a captive enviroment if you lost your 9 to 5, what would Primerica say if you wanted to offer other products such as health insurance. This is your family we are considering. You need income.

What if you found out about an organization like this?
http://ihiaa.com/ You can have support and have access to other companies without the pressure of being recruited. Side by side kowing what you know now. Which looks more better? being captive or Independent.

Primerica says no you can’t sell health products to help put food on your table. Your independent contract says go ahead, do what you think is best for your family. People it’s about freedom. That’s what we are trying to show you. Once you know it’s a persoanl decision. It’s not in the best interest of Primerica to tell you about all the opportunities available to you. You are at Primerica to sell the products they allow you to sell. It’s business..

Tom people only have so much money to go around. If I save a client $17.00 a month I could offer them a Legal Plan or maybe a small amount of disability depending on the comapny. From what I remember Primerica’s Legal Plan cost $25.00 a month. Provided by the same company.

If I could save them on their current life plan, I could possibly increase their coverage with the same amount of outlay. I’m not sure if you know it but companies have reduced their rates in the past 5 years.
Yes I know PFS has reduced their rates, but look at the guarantee periods.

Now if one company is table rating a client I may be able to shop it for them and see if another company is more competitive. This is especially true with smokers. Some companies may not consider cigars for smokers rates and another might. Then what about weight? So you see Tom it’s not just about price. It’s about doing the best job possible for the client.

Get this I don’t have to worry about another agent coming in behind me replacing my program, because I will have access to the same carriers he/she may also have in most cases.

Keep posting Tom. I’m sure there are some PFS agents looking up what’s being posted. The more you post the more they will learn..Everyday they will look in the mirror and it will be there. They will ask themselves did they do what’s best for the client or the company?
Sometimes the client is a family member.

tom said, “I am glad it is limited to 40%. That way if I need it I have it. But usuing it will not hurt my family.”

That doesn’t make any sense at all. He’s GLAD the product is limited?!?!?! And he’s accusing *us* of not caring for our clients!!!

Tell that to the terminally ill patient. I think tom’s loyalties are misplaced. He is more concerned about defending Primerica, than helping the client.

James it right, its about choice for the client, and freedom for the Agent.

I am STILL waiting for some facts, figures, and product details (and business-model discussions), from Primericans.

Let’s compare side-by-side (without mentioning the product provider) and let everyone who is reading this thread decide. Coke vs Pepsi test.

Oh one more thing. Michael the comparison won’t happen because the PFS agents are in the clients home to do the best that they can do with what they have to offer.

As you know that’s where the absence of value quote comes into play.

I’m done, unless Tom calls me out again.

If someone can justify the 40% limit because the company is looking out for the client, that’s the case some make for Whole life. They say it’s a forced savings plan. As we know death is a guaranteed event and Term pays out about 3% of the time. Permanent coverage is for a permanent event.

In a terminal situation there may be other expenses especially if there are LTC cost without a LTC policy.
I would think that side account would be drained or at least have a sizable amount used for health care cost. The TI is just there if needed. If a client feels they want a higher amount why not have different limits available to offer. Yes being independent is a good thing.

Tom please give me a history lesson on life insurance. This ought to be good. I’m sure you understand how the cash value of a policy is used within a policy and who owns it. (I’m just fueling the fire)

If your so against the TI, why is 40% ok? There are companies that offer policies without a TI benefit. Exactly what does th issue with todays “mortgage crisis” have to do with someone who has a health situation and high health care cost? The key word is terminal…Usually 12 months to live. I think I have even seen a policy that stated 6 months…Yet don’t quote me on that.

Tom the company by contract is going to pay out 100% of the face amount. Depending on the policy and if there are any type of loans or whatever. If they are going to pay out any procedes early they are losing the use of some funds. In comes the interest charge and/or other fees.

Tom side by side. If a person buys a 100K face amount policy from company A or Primerica for the same duration and they die how much will company A pay compared to what Primerica will pay?

I haven’t seen the current Primerica policy, but at one time there was an admin fee for the TI. Something to think about is no matter the insurance comapny something is being paid for some where.

You say what I can offer is cheaper but cost more to use other features. Well what you profess cost more but offer some features free. Nothing is in stone until we see the contract. Michael has asked for comparisons, but no takers. There are PFS reps. posting on other boards on the net.

As for your terminal examples it’s just an option. You can bring up any example but this is looking at it from large numbers not an individual situation. You actually think insurance companies are looking out for the benefit of the policy holder. It’s a contract. Which then brings us back to why not fully guarantee a policy to it’s full term?

If a company has the option to increase premiums they will if they have to. Look at what’s going on with LTC increase in premiums.

I can see it now. Mr. Jones, sure your 30 year policy premium is only guaranteed for 20 years but hey they may not raise the rates. Trust us we are XYB Insurance Company. Yea right.

You compare an ARM with a fixed mortgage. Well why isn’t a fully guaranteed premium better than a partial guarantee? As for your repeating yourself just stop.

So for all the PFS people looking at thes post, help out Tom. If you would like to consider helping out yourself give Michael a call..

I don’t know Michael, but I know the difference between being captive and independent. Especially when an agent is part-time. Why be part-time and captive?

Well I have to go see a client..

Again Tom is spewing half-truths. View everything he says with tremendous skepticism.

For example, in his last post he said, “Well You need E and O insurance. I talk to a freind I sell to in my business. It runs a minimum of $1300 for her and she is a captive agent. And that is a month. I am curious home many parttimers want to work hard for $3000 and are barely breaking even. I know I would not want to have to do, 6,000 dollars in premium and barely breaking even. I guess being captive has it benefits. But there is more than this one.”

Kinda true, but not the whole truth.
1) E&O is about $1,300 a YEAR (not a month), and covers securities and life insurance producers.

2) Primerica’s in “only” about $300 a year, BUT

3) It does NOT cover life insurance.

4) The securities E&O is for PFS Investments, NOT the Registered Rep. This is a little known fact among many Primericans. It’s a little like PMI insurance on mortgages. Meaning, if the RR gets in trouble the coverage is for the COMPANY, not the agent. If the Rep screws up, PFSI will separate themselves very quickly from him or her. They, nor the E&O, will go to bat for the agent.

Another reason WHY to go independent (and incorporate, as well).

Again, whatever you can do in PFS, you can do better on the outside. Improved products AND cheaper products, more products, outside business activities (with approval from your B/D), higher contracts, better legal protection (E&O, “S” Corp) etc.

No reason to be capitive.

Example, we hired an account in our Agency, that we tried to recruit into PFS two years (right before I left). Well, PFS said it was a “conflict” and turned her down.

After we left, she was one of the first new “recruits” in my independent agency.

She has 1,100 accounting/book keeping clients, whom she wants to help with securities, life insurance, loans, and living trusts. We have already had a client seminar in her office with 24 attendees.

Thus far, through her we have invested over $1M in variable annuities, closed three loans, done four living trusts, and a number of life cases.

Next week SHE is closing $600,000 in variable annuities and she’ll earn over $18,000!

All this would not have been possible in PFS.

James, this is a VERY good distinction…

“Tom let me ask you this. Primerica says Buy term & Invest The Difference. Which means buy low cost term and invest the difference a client would have put into a cash value program. Well isn’t that kind of like selling on price?”

The reason that BT&ITD works, is *because* of price! You don’t sell term vs cash-value on “features”, it is purely a price sale. If somehow a cash-value product existed that was cheaper than term for the same face amount, it would be “better” because the client would get their money back.

Oh wait, something similar *does* exist. ROP Term.

Anyway, it is interesting that Primericans are “all about price” when putting their term insurance up against cash-value, but when *others* (such as myself), compete against *them* with cheaper/better term policies, THEN all of the sudden its about “price is only an issue in the absence of value” B.S.

Our motto: Replace Primerica Term (with less expensive/better term), and invest the difference.

As I posted above, Micheal word cannot be trusted. He said in a previous post hwe was going to ignore me. But here he is posting his opinions and his facts. How are we to know the turth if he can’t even keep his word about not responding.
—————

Michael Thomas @ 2:59 pm
Again Tom is spewing half-truths. View everything he says with tremendous skepticism.

For example, in his last post he said, “Well You need E and O insurance. I talk to a freind I sell to in my business. It runs a minimum of $1300 for her and she is a captive agent. And that is a month. I am curious home many parttimers want to work hard for $3000 and are barely breaking even. I know I would not want to have to do, 6,000 dollars in premium and barely breaking even. I guess being captive has it benefits. But there is more than this one.”

Kinda true, but not the whole truth.
1) E&O is about $1,300 a YEAR (not a month), and covers securities and life insurance producers.

Since Mine is coming from a freind and not someone that has a history of not keeping his word this is suspect. But then again maybe his policy is for small things. Just remember Michael promised to ignore me.
————–

2) Primerica’s in “only” about $300 a year, BUT

3) It does NOT cover life insurance.

4) The securities E&O is for PFS Investments, NOT the Registered Rep. This is a little known fact among many Primericans. It’s a little like PMI insurance on mortgages. Meaning, if the RR gets in trouble the coverage is for the COMPANY, not the agent. If the Rep screws up, PFSI will separate themselves very quickly from him or her. They, nor the E&O, will go to bat for the agent.

Again with his opinions. Does he have documented facts? Does he have lawsuits that prove this? I doubt it. But then again his real name is not Michael but Thomas. I am curious why he changed his name? I do remember that Primerica had some agents it had to get rid of in Orange county since they were selling away. Were you part of that group Michael? Could this be the reason for the hateful and deceitful posts?
—————————
Another reason WHY to go independent (and incorporate, as well).

Again, whatever you can do in PFS, you can do better on the outside. Improved products AND cheaper products, more products, outside business activities (with approval from your B/D), higher contracts, better legal protection (E&O, “S” Corp) etc.

No reason to be capitive.

By his answer all those agents in Allstate, and State Farms and even Primerica are stupid people. But wait He and James are the only two I have ever heard of that saying independent is so great. Most of the agents I talk to in my business, love being captive. They know what is out there and have been approached. But they know the “Grass is not greener on the other side”. they say it is usually spray painted green.
————————————-

Example, we hired an account in our Agency, that we tried to recruit into PFS two years (right before I left). Well, PFS said it was a “conflict” and turned her down.

After we left, she was one of the first new “recruits” in my independent agency.

She has 1,100 accounting/book keeping clients, whom she wants to help with securities, life insurance, loans, and living trusts. We have already had a client seminar in her office with 24 attendees.

Thus far, through her we have invested over $1M in variable annuities, closed three loans, done four living trusts, and a number of life cases.

Next week SHE is closing $600,000 in variable annuities and she’ll earn over $18,000!

All this would not have been possible in PFS.

There is a reason why she was untouchable. And you know what. I trust PRS over you any day of the week. There are people out there that are thrown out of Primerica. They ahve to break the law, but then again, I would not want them working with my money. And there are people that are in other business, that have a conflict of interest. If you avhe no problem working with them, then this is another reason why no one should work with you. IF you are able to overlook her conflict of interest, maybe you will over look one of you agents felon records. That remind me of WMA, now I think it is called WFG. They are known for taking people on with felonies, as long as they do not have to do with money. Do you really want to have a felon handling your finances?

Getting back to the Conflict of interest. This protects the client, the company and the individual. The client so she is never given wrong information. (Like those guys that caught selling away.) The company so that they do not get in a legal battle with the other company.( Like being sued since she is not selling there products.) And the individual, so she does not need to worry about losing her job, or career, before she wants too.
——————

I do hope Michael, or Thomas which ever is your name, can atleast live up to his word. But noticing his statements here I doubt it.

James,
Since I am not sure who you are but let me respond to this post.

You are telling half truths, if not full lies but let me clarify my points here.
———–
Tom no one is bashing PFS and no one is saying Primerica is a scam of any sort. I suggest people should verify anything said on any board. People can call any respective company and ask anything about products or agent compensation. As far as companies paying death benefits I can’t comment on that. That’s all hearsay.

First, If you are saying negative things about a company. They are charging more, they do not pay enough, they have higher costs, they are limits. they do not cover the agent and will dump them immediately. Those statements are bashing, and they are lies if you can’t prove them. The Price issue which is so paramount means the company needs to be equal in stature as Primerica, ratings, training, what is in the policy, etc. Since most of the companies that are selling term are owned atleast in part by Cash value companies, they are not equal. I have a buddy that went with cheaper term, but he keeps getting calls and letters from the corporate telling him to convert his term to cash value. This si one reason why you do nto want to have cheap term. I get enough calls and letters with my net worth being 2 million in liguid assets, that I do not need anymore.
——————

Go ahead join Primerica. You seem like a good fit. Oh yes just to let you know my appointment went great. I have another one in a couple of hours.

So you suckered another one. Well they say their is one born every minute and 2 on Sunday. But when they get educated by Primerica, what are you going to do, but go out and get a new one.

As For joining, I said I have been asked over the last 10 years to joined. Had RVP’s ask me. I do nto join since I do not want to spend my time working. I do what I want since I ahve money. Liek this week I am leaving today, and spending the whole weekend in a 5 star Hotel. It will not be CHEAP, but then again motel 6 is not my idea of a hotel. Also staying renting a room for 2 and having 6 people sleep there is not honest, on honorable.
————————–

You say rates have gone down currently, well why is that a point for you? You bring up conversion again, which is another option. The client can always say no thank you. Now let’s look at a person at an older age who is about to come to end of term, what if the develpoe a serious health issue? Will that conversion option be a good thing or a bad thing? They can have the option to lock in a face amount and premium.

If you are so Buy term and invest the difference, and you have no problem with someone offering your client a conversion, you are not only a liar about the first part, but you are stupid. Any one that understand Cash value, knows it is good for the top 1%. And they have lawyers and CPA’s to help them. Anyone else that is offered the plan, is being taken advantage of. If you think it is agreat idea, then you are showing your true colors. You are not a Buy term and invest the difference, but you are a Cash value salesperson, who ahs hitched his wagon on to the term and is using it to steal and lie to their clients to get them in worse financial position. Thank you for showing your true colors.

Since you do nto know why Cash value is so bad, sicne you think conversions is such a great idea, here are the 6 rules of Cash value that are in the contract. (We all know you can say what you want but the words in the contract is waht matters):
1 to 5% guaranteed return.
6 to 8% to borrow the money ( Even if you are paying it, it is not yours.
6 Months deferment
First 1 to 7 years of no money in the account.
No Tax liability.
When you die, the company keeps the money.

Please tell me which of these 6 rules is good for the Client. the one you are supposed to have Fiduciary duty to!!!!!!!!

Anyone that says conversion is good for the client, needs to have their head examined. It is only good for the Company. But then again any competent adviser has said that in book, in magazines, and on Video.

—————-

Tom let me ask you this. Primerica says Buy term & Invest The Difference. Which means buy low cost term and invest the difference a client would have put into a cash value program. Well isn’t that kind of like selling on price?

No it means what it says. Just like buying car does not mean you have to take the cheapest car. You can get what you want. If you want the cheapest term, get it. You do not sell it though. I can get term for $10 for 250,000 on the internet. I do not have set an appointment they call me on phone we talk for about 10 to 15 minutes and I get my cheap term. Personally I am willing to pay for service. Most people are willing to pay for service.They do not want to have to call China to get service from a company. This is not my opinion, but every sales guru is saying that. Gitmor says is constantly. But then again you sell on price, and your clients will always be looking for the next deal.
——————–

***Great point Michael. I did leave the point out out Broker Dealer approval on outside activities.

Tom as you can see sometimes things are mentioned, but you have no clue of what is being said. E/O is a great example.

Well First, anything coming from Michael, or Thomas is suspect. He has lied here, and he has stolen from past business people (Primerica). Why would I take his word, over a client of mine who ahs no reason to lie to me? I know you might want to take his word, but even your judgement is suspect with the comment about conversion. Since you think conversion is great option, I know you have no clue.
—————-

A part-time can go to http://www.napa-benefits.org/default.aspx and consider their plan. Also some companies do offer discounts if contracted with certain carriers. As always when looking at any policy people should read their contract.

Again you are recruiting? You are saying that this is not PFS bashing but that is a lie. You say you are not recruiting, but you are placing all these websites and email addresses for people to contact you or otehr companies. You word is suspect on Bashing and recruiting, and converting, what is your true agenda. I ahve read otehr boards and you remind me of people who are agents that sell and promote cash value. Your motives are now suspect.
—————–

Well Tom it looks like you don’t know what you don’t know again. Your learning. You quoted that term only pays out 3% of the time. You may not see it, but it’s finally starting to sink in..Keep posting. I’m sure the PFS agents are learning quite a bit.

I am sorry that quote came from one of the James. It is nto my quote. Now if it was not you then the other basher did it. As for how long they are enforced, it is 10 years on average, a couple years ago. This came from some Insurance publication I read.

Well as for PFS agents learning, Education is their business. Your statement and motives are very sustpect. I do not trust you since you have moronic statements about conversion, but then again you are more than like a cash value selling agent that always attack Primerica. Did you know most of the Primerica negative posts come from the agents that lose to them?
—————–

wow. Tom really flamed me! I think his true colors are obvious!

How professional. So, I’m a “liar” and can’t be trusted because I respond to the THREAD (not him), based upon his statements.

What I have yet to see from him, and others defending Priemrica is FACTS, FIGURES and NUMbERS!

He keeps repeating “quality”, as though PFS’ life is “better” than cheapers. And he over-simplifies the issues when he says “cheaper must not be as good.”

He is wrong. But I am open to FACTS. I wish he were to answer this case:

35 year old female.
standard plus
35 year guaranteed term
50 terminal illness benefit ($250,000 max)
no war exclusion
2 year suicide exclusion
renewable to age 95
company ratings: aa+, A++, aa1

Stop ranting, and show us how a Primerica Life policy is of “higher quality”.

Then, this…
Variable Annuity
M&E: 1.24%
11 American Funds subaccounts
Guaranteed Incoe Rider, starting at 5% (0.25%)
NEVER annuitizes!
every five years withdrawal amount increases by 0.5%
Withdrawing more than alloted %, does NOT “break” the rider.

Please, show us how the PrimElite IV is a “higher quality” product.

I promise you, he won’t respond with numbers. He’ll rant.

Hey Michael,

Tom does not appear to have any interest on anything other than his opinion.
You give him facts, he doesn’t care.
I have been long enough in this business to know fact from fiction.
We are independent. If there was a product they had that was worth our time, we would say so. We do not hold obligatory allegiances beyond common sense.
As if we didn’t know your products to the T…

He will call you a whole life agent without you even being one. He’ll call you a liar, question verifiable facts blah, blah… He is not here to do anything but put a paper bag over his head and scream out the sky is polka dotted.
Now… ROP is a choice not the end all and be all of a real consultant’s arsenal. That is just one example and they way they feel is that if they don’t have it then it must be demonized.
News Flash… There is a market for every product created. Michael I think you are way too kind, you actually posted info ealier that I knew people like Tom would just react by closing their eyes, plug their ears and yell lalalalala.

Michael you know what you are talking about. I know all those carriers and your figures are available to the public.

Tom you are the one masterfully avoiding the real issues. You ought to be in politics and I can read very well. Did you read your contractual situation and think that is the norm? Product lines?
If that’s the case then I know you need to get out more. Normal term commissions start around 60% Tom and they are not limited to a $1,500 commissionable cap.

Now please post something… Just one concept at least… Anything that you can do sublimely and we can’t do better as independents.

XRL

James S. @ 11:12 pm

Tom brother,

This sounds like a religious term. I am no more your brother than those idiots sending out emails saying they are Christian Mortgage Brokers. Do you know it was illegal for Christians to make any money on the money they loaned to people.

So please refrain from using Christian terms. A Christian does not lie cheat nor steal from his fellowman.
———————

Just remember NBIP (nothing personal in business). Yes I should have taken more care in my spelling, LOL.

You Laugh at something that is professional. You remind me of the way Car Salespeople were considered. Since you do not think it is proper to be professional here, where else do you think professionalism is not needed? How about when the client asked a direct question that you hem and haw at? Or how about the agent that placed a piece of paper on top of the policy saying you can never cancel this policy. Since it was not attached is was not part of the policy, but the agent knew that, but the client did not. Sneaky things agents will do to cheat, lie and steal from their clients.
———————-

You asked, since you never worked with them how can you give any information about the company? I was called out of the blue from a “Jerry” a PFS agent, and I really do not know how he got my number. His sales pitch how my wife and I would be a great managers working for PFS. The way it was presented was that we would be employees and this was a “job opportunity.” He wanted us to come down to the PFS building and interview with him. I did set an appointment because I was really unclear about why he would call an air conditioning mechanic and a housewife and say that they would make great managers at PFS.

Well the same way the found me, not once but several times. They hear from word of mouth. Clients, friends and neighbors meet people and pass on the name and number. It could be that they saw you someone where and thought you had what was needed. They could ahve picked your business card. Or they could have been dialing for recruits. This is when you do cold calling and see if you can get any results. It is difficult, because of the do not call list, but then again, Primerica is not for those that quit easily.

Now as for the Employees part, they never said that in any of the many times I get calls. They say they have an opportunity to make money. They ask me if I am interested. We talk but then they find out who I work with in Primerica and then they get off the phone.

Why would they call a house wife, or an a/c mechanic. Same reason why I hire salespeople that have sold to different companies. They are looking for people wanting to win. They are not looking for someone who is looking to draw a paycheck. Remember they are sales people and sales people get paid on commission, mostly. If you work you get paid. If I want to start selling to A.C Mechanics or any certain group, I get someone that speaks their language. Then they have a leg up. But this is something I can understand you fail to get since you do not understand the dynamic of hiring quality people.
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Tom, you said, by the way in past posts you have said you were an agent. Which one is it? Please do not confuse me with any other James; this is the only post that I have written.

Well First, I have never said I was an agent. I have been apporached many time to become one and this is where I get my information. But I never had the need to. And since I ahve 2 millions in assets that are easy to convert. (This means in stocks and bond and mutual funds.) Not including homes, I do what I do now because I like it, not because I have to. And you might want to know that I did this because I worked with a Primerica agent for a long time. When no one else would work with me. Now those same companies beg to manage my accounts, but I am loyal. Yes it may cost a little more, but then value does.
Michael/Thomas may say that price really matters. But then again I keep bringing up a Yugo and a BMW. Now I would never ride in a Yugo. Micheal may think they are the best thing since sliced bread since he thinks price is the only thing that matters.
Or you can stay in the Econolodge, or the no-name motel that charges by the person. Personally I only stay in 4 to 5 star hotels. Quality matters to me, and most people. Just like loyalty. These are two things that Michael/Thomas does not understand.
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Please do not get me wrong, personally I do not like Amway, Quixtar however I like Mary Kay. These are examples of MLM’s. I do not have a problem with MLM’s. It’s the products or services that I do not like. PFS I do not like because you are captive. I like my organization. I am not trying to recruit and I will leave it nameless. If someone is interested that may e-mail me and I will go into details. When I stated “that’s not the issue” I am saying, I do not have a problem with MLM’s, it’s the products or services which make a MLM bad. My wife swears by Mary Kay products. I do not want to be forced into buying overpriced soap from who ever.

First May Kay is Cosmetics. And Amway/Quixtar is soap.

Second, why is captive so bad. Do you work for a Contractor in the Business of Ac Repair? If so, what would happen if he caught you working on the side? Anyone in sales, is usually captive. Xerox sales people do not sell HP. But in Financial services it is even more important. You are trusting them with your money, and your family lively hood(Life insurance). Which is better, someone who is captive and sells one company. Or person who sells for whomever pays the highest? A Hired Gun?
Let us look at the insurance companies as a whole. Most sell cash value, a known product that destroys families, making them have car washes and other fund raisers to bury their dead, and pays the bills. Even the term companies are owned by cash value companies. ROP is the Insurance companies way of mixing term and cash value again. Did you know that cash value is annual renewable term? This is term that goes up every year. The cash or the money added as a saving plan for the insurance company to offset the cost of the insurance. So who wins there?
ROP is a way to pay more so if by chance you keep paying for the length of the term, you will get the premiums back. Now the average term policy is kept for 7 to 10 years to possible 12 years. Since most policies are 20 to 35, what are the chance that the ROP will ever pay out? Slim and none.
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Tom, you forgot to capitalize “being part-time I bet your present broker will through a fit, and send his lawyers after you if you tried to take them. I can even bet you signed a clause but did not know about it. Most brokers do this so they do not lose the clients they have.” Let me explain. I did not sign a non-compete agreement. I am truly an independent, non-captive agent. Yes, there are some rules like I must follow each carriers advertising rules and I must meet XYZ carriers requirements. If I want to sell products from some carrier that I do not use in my organization, I first tell my up-line to look at this carrier. Only as a courtesy, I do not have to do this. The reason I do this is because if they have a bigger, better, and cheaper product, let’s bring them in with us.

It is the term I keep seeing. Cheaper. Do you know the meaning of the words, you use? But here is some great FACTS:
Since 1977 over 50% of the insurance companies that were in business have folded.

Fact Primerica has 6% of the face value with 2% of the Premiums.

Last Fact: A Yugo is cheaper than a BMW. Both are cars. Which would you want your family in?

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If they say no way Jose, I set up my own deal with them and go on. You see, I really tell on myself, because I do not have to be afraid of any lawyers since I am not breaking any contractual agreements.
Tom, here is where you and I differ. You asked why selling only PFS is bad. Would you only purchase one brand car knowing that there is a better products that there? Would you only shop at one supermarket? You are forced to do this because PFS would have a fit and send their lawyers on you because of the non-compete clause you signed.

First, I have not signed anything, for Primerica. I am not an Agent. I am a client with more knowledge than some ex-agents and people who think they know more because they were approached.

Second, If I wanted a quality car, I would get a quality car. Same thing with food.

When it comes to advice on insurance, I know there are cheaper term. I seen it called no-value term, by some agents. But then again I am willing to pay for quality. Most people are willing to pay for quality and service. To know that the company they trust their family with, is not Joe’s A.C repair and insurance company. It is Primerica. It is one of the biggest asset in Citi. It is worth over 7 billion dollars. They paid only 7 or 70 million for it. I am not sure which but they have gotten a great return on their money. But unlike Joe’s Insurance and A.C. Repair, Primerica keeps an Eye on what the agents do, and do not do. Since they are the deep pockets.
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Here we go again. You said, “So basic economics say that the companies you work for, either pay to much and will ahve to short cut on services, or are possibly going out of business. Either way they are not good companies.” How do you know my companies? Please state facts when you know them. I am not here to advertise any company. If you are curious, e-mail me and I will let you know who I represent. I have nothing to hide.

First, Since I am not an agent, I am not sure what you sell or do I care. Second, Since I have investigated most of the companies that Michael/ THomas, and other companies out there. most are owned by cash value companies.If you want to know these companies do your own research. Since you do not know this makes me suspect that you have not investigated the companies your sell. I am curious did you investigate the owners of the companies you sell? How about there past practices? Did you see how well they have been in the past?
I doubt you have done this since you do not even know that many of the Term Only insurance companies are owned and operated by Cash value companies. And this is why ROP was created.
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“As for Cancer (Look at Spelling), accidental and the other policies that you can sell, they are usually worthless. Any competent adviser says to stay away from Cancer policies since they are so narrow that they are not worth the policy. Accidental death and dismemberment is worthless, since it pays on 1 out 1,000 policies. I have already clarified LTD to you and you still keep bringing it up, I guess you do not remember that. LTD is something you should get from work, and not from your neighborhood salesperson who is trying to make more money off you.” Ok I offer these as an extra line. If someone is interested in them, I have the ability to talk to them and offer them these services. There are many mixed opinions. Can you offer these services with PFS? Are you Accident and Health licensed?

Again you need to read, I am a client with more knowledge than you. Since you said you offer these worthless products, does that mean you will sell what ever you can make a buck on? Does that mean you will steal from your client, any chance you can?

As for PFS, I am not sure if they sell them. But when I chatted with my Agent about these an other products I was interested in, he said read about these policies on the internet, the Wall street journal, and other Professional Publications that talk about money. They all said what I said. They are worthless. Accidental and Cancer are both worthless since they do not pay out often. As for LTD, policies outside work cost considerable more and do not cover as much.

Now since you have admitted to selling products that are not good for your clients, are you not like/similar to those cash value agents that sold policies that imploded in the 70 and 80’s? Or how about the people who had several policies but had less than 5,000 worth of insurance that they paid hundreds of dollars on and got nothing in exchange? Most people would call you a predator, stalking your victims, and selling them over priced items they will never amount to anything.
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As far as recruiting, please do not read more into it that what was stated. I said that I do not have to recruit. Recruiting is not a bad thing. I just do not force feed it to anyone. If they are interested, I explain it to them. They are adults and they can make their own minds up.

Great you do not think recruiting is bad. Then there may be hope for you yet. But I doubt it.
But if you are recruiting people to sell things that are not good for the people you are selling to, then you are a predator. Look up the definition.
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Giving up 5 or 6 sales to my trainer, what’s up with that? Why don’t you split the commissions? That seems fair.

First, Life is not fair. I have been waiting to use that term for weeks.

Second, Would you give up 5 to 6 appointments to be able to get 5 to 6 from everyone you train? And then what about the referrals? You get those. I would trade 5 to 6 sales to get 50 to 60 warm qualified leads.
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I did not have anyone show me and remember I am an a/c repairman. The support I get from my up line and my fellow agents has helped me learn what I do.

So you are sure they are not holding anything back. Remember that they do not have any reason to train you completely. Did the person who trained you on the job on A.C. Repair show you all his tricks? I doubt it. Then the company can replace him with you for less money.

The training sales literally means the trainer has nothing to lose to showing you everything.
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I am not stupid, I learn from my mistakes and correct myself.

Your post is proving otherwise. Let me show you in the next couple of lines.
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I put my priority in learning my products. Sales are sales. Offer the best product and services you can offer and if you believe in the product it will sell itself.

Wrong. Most sales are done because of a connections. Relationships. I have been sales longer than you have been on this earth, probably. Product knowledge helps, belief in the product helps. But the connection is what matters.
You need to read more books.
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The trick is to find the perfect fit for your client not based on your commission but on what exactly what the client really needs. Do you need to sell ice to an Eskimo?

Depends. But can you? There is no perfect fit. Even custom made suits are not perfect. But then again, I did not expect you to know this fact along with several others.
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So it cost you, the independent, over $2000 to get the same things it cost the Priemrica (spelling) agent, $99. You have a yearly expense of office space, postage, overnight delivery, insurance for office, insurance for E and O, and lawyers if you get sued. Tom, Tom, Tom, lets clear this up. My costs are 149 for the license from the state DOI, 250 for the L & H class, 250 for E & O insurance and 100 for the state test. I work out of my home and the sales brochures are free from my carrier. Do you pay for your brochures?

Since I am not an agent, am not sure if they pay for them, but most business have over head.

You said you have a home office. That must be comforting to your clients that you work out of your home? Is it a proper office by IRS standards, or just an area that has desk and a couple file cabinets. You are sounding more and more fly by night.

What state are you in? You did not mention Securities so you must not be investing the difference. This would be another way you are cheating your clients. You mentioned 250 for e and o. Since it only covers Life insurance, that is understandable. The price I was quoting was for a full service person. Someone that has all the licenses needed to help people. Not just a Life insurance sales person saying he is a financial adviser. Suze Orman has a field day with people like you.

But then again you still paid more, and are giving and getting less. You are not even a better version. Just a no value insurance salesperson.
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Tom, you said, “Funny you have been doing this for months now. I am curious, do you say the same thing to your clients with a straight face.” Sure do, join with me and I will train you. This is a Christian blog. Isn’t Christian supposed to be Christ like? Why would I lie?

How do you sleep at night? If I did any of the many things you say here I would not be able to sleep at night.

As for being a Christian blog, many atrocities have been done in his name. So please do not say that since this is a Christian blog I could not lie. I know of many pastors, priest and deacons along with many Christians that have done unthinkable acts. I can name them but that would be a history lesson and I rather not waste my time educating you any more than I have to.

As for Lying, you lie like all the other good Christians do it. The list is endless. But the number one reason is for money.
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When this is no long my passion or I start putting my pocket book ahead of my clients I will quit.

Since you sell products that are not good for the client you are doing that already. Cancer, Accidental and LTD are all products that you sell that are not good for the client and only good for the agent. They are similar to cash value. So please quit today.
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Oh by the way, this is the James that posted on July 26, 2008 James @ 9:25 pm for the first time. I am sorry for any confusion. I will now call myself James S. I was just expressing my experience with someone who gained my interest in the financial planning field. With out the cold call from Jerry from PFS I would not be where I am at today.

I have learned a couple of things. The use of spell check and instead of using the philosophy “buy term and invest the difference” maybe try buy term and invest the difference only when it makes sense. Who are you serving, your pocket book or your client?

Again, I am not an agent. just a well informed client. It seems you and Michael/Thomas have the same affliction. The inability to read and understand.

If you want to change whatever you want go ahead. This is how come people are asking about ROP. This was created by the Insurance company to take more money from the client and place it in the coffers of the company.

But any Intelligent Adviser will not change the saying Buy Term and Invest the Difference, because it is not a theory, it is not some fly by night idea. It is something that have been known for more than 30 years. Any competent adviser knows this. All the money books and magazines say this. the only people who say differently are those that sell cash value in any form including ROP.
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Being non-captive means to me, that I am not forced to sell one product, one service, or having one mindset. This field is constantly changing. You must have the flexibility to change and flexible products to meet your client’s needs.

So you sell the newest and most recent thing before it is tested. How many companies go out of business because of this. Over half of the companies selling insurance, in 1977, are gone. They must have been trying to follow the trend.

Any company trying to follow the trend usually will be out of business. Reminds me of a company that was selling silver coins. $60 of coins for $100. It was a MLM. I waited 6 months. they were now selling disposable cameras in the late 80’s. They were following the trend.

Primerica, follows the tried and true way. They add products when it is good for the client and for the company. They do not suggest anything that will not work out. One of the referrals I gave to my friend who was an agent, had some term that was good. They could not beat it. The only problem was that he got calls and letters asking him to convert to permanent insurance. Eventually he paid more not to get those calls and letters. That is a value.
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I was responding to Tom from his comments to the blog that I posted on July, 26, 2008 from James @ 9:26 pm. Tom, I see that you have a lot of anger and I hope you take care of that.

Anger, I do not have. Frustration with people like yourself who gives half truths and mis-leading statements. You need to discern the emotions.
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I posted the truth from my experience and belief.

Something I read about Opinions. They have the least worth for any good information.

As for your post, If you do not know the model of Primerica, you will never know. But you are an Insurance salesperson, not a financial coach. You can’t talk about Securities, nor can you talk about annuities other than fixed ones. These are worthless unless you are buying them to fulfill an obligation. (Car wrecks, Pensions, E and O.)
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If you are happy with PFS, I am happy for you. I just know that you can do better.

This is an opinion. They have the least worth for any good information.

Can you do better, possibly. But I have already proved you pay more have less. You have to sell bad products to clients to make up the difference. You admitted you sell products that are not good for your clients. You said you will quit if you ever find out that you are not doing the best for the client. I ahve already proved this in several areas, I love to see your termination notice.
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Please state facts as I have, without knowing my carriers please find out who they are before calling them not good companies.

You are right. I just know the industry. I also know things about you. And if you are willing to sell things that are not good for the client and a waste of money, one can only put two and two together and get 4. Since you sell garbage, and you sell for companies that suggest/allow you to sell the garbage, intelligent people can infer you are a profit mongrel. That is someone who places his own wallet before his client needs. Did you not say you will quit if you started that?
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By the way are your policies fully convertible and guaranteed?

Again I am not an agent, but the policy I have is guaranteed. As for convertible, the only thing to convert to is cash value. Since my that is a waste, why woudl I want to work with a company that sells garbage? I am curious, did you know Wall Street Journal once said this “Why are the only people who think cash value is good are those that sell it?” Since you suggest that cash value is good, I am wondering if you have either brain damage, or are a lying sales person.
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Do you know the difference between a good term policy and a bad one?

I am curious, do you know that what you know about insurance versus what I know is comparing Centiliters (YOU) vs. Gallons (Me)> Just because I am not an agent does not mean I do not research the issues and know the differences.
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I am sure your clients would like to know.

Again I am a Client not an Agent. I am in sales. Matter of fact I train sales people. You need to go read and understand your craft more. Then you might be able to compete with someone of Amateur status, not someone that understands what he is buying before he buys.
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Just remember, NBIP (nothing personal in business). If you want to know about my carriers e-mail me at investinginfamilies@yahoo.com.

First It is personal. I have had friends of my family that have to borrow to bury their parents because they were sold some insurance. They were told it would cover anything. Found out it was accidental insurance, and the guy died of a heart attack. When it comes to financial issues, it is personal.

Second, your attitude about this shows me you need to quit. If I had an agent that acted like you, I would drop you in a second. You do not know what you are talking about. Since you are talking about converting, this is what my friend had done to him. Convert to permanent every month. Another call from the insurance company saying to call them back. He wasted his time to find out they were trying to convert him to cash value. Finally he left them and went with Primerica. He paid more so he would not get the harassing calls. One of the salesperson said it was stupid to have term, and Cash Value is the only way to go. When my Friend quoted Wall Street Journal, the guy said they sell papers, we know more. He asked to be taken off the list and they said they could not do it. Since they make so much money converting they will keep at this.

This is value. Since you do not bring nothing other than no value term, with the harassing calls to convert, I can see why you need to sell on price.

IN any sales, Price only matters in the absence of value. Any one saying differently does not have any value in the product they are selling. Best example is the BMW and YUGO. YUGO is cheap, BMW has value.

James S.

Tom get off the ROP kick you don’t know what your talking about. For those readers who don’t know what return Of Premium Term is (ROP)
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/insurance/life-return-premium1.asp

Tom also on your post. tom @ 5:29 pm

You say: “Since Micheal or Thomas, which ever name he goes under can seem to read simple English and understand simple written word, I think he did something foolish and got terminated. He then had to get his own office because no one else would take on the risk. Just like a person with High Blood Pressure, and Diabetes are not likely to get insurance, no one would take on the risk of having him as an agent.”

**There you go making baseless accusations. Next you make the comment about a person with High Blood Pressure or Diabetes may not be able to get coverage. Everytime you post you show you don’t know what you don’t know. It’s not that PFS headquarters has silenced their agents on this board, IT’S YOU..

Do you rally think this is the only board PFS agents see on the web. They post on others and I even gave you a link to one who openly post that he is a PFS Rep.
I’m sure they know if they post they will be asked to verify some of the things you say.

As for for the problem with spelling i’m sure you have noticed that’s happening with everyone. Computer keys do stick sometimes.

For those who wish to know, myself and James S. are two seperate people.

Keep posting Tom… Your doing a great job.

Tom

Sorry for offending you by calling you brother.

If you cannot laugh at yourself, then you must be really wound tight. I make mistakes, don’t you? Do you walk on water? Oops there is a Christian reference on a Christian Personal Finance blog, go figure. I really must apologize, now that was an example of being unprofessional.

I am not here to attack you. I can see that you are a CLIENT and not an agent. The reason I sale insurance is because I believe in my product, I believe in my carriers, and I believe that I am doing the right thing for my clients. As, far as an agent putting a piece of paper on the top of the policy saying you can not cancel, I believe the state DOI would have an issue with and if you have proof of an agent doing that I would turn them in. You said, “Sneaky things agents will do to cheat, lie and steal from their clients.” Are those agents from PFS? I do not know what agents you deal with, I can only account for myself. I do not do that. If you know of a sneaky agent that lies, cheats, and steals from their clients if you give the state that you live in I will give you the phone number to the DOI and you can do the honorable thing and turn them in.

Tom to answer your questions, do you work for a Contractor in the Business of Ac Repair? If so, what would happen if he caught you working on the side? Anyone in sales, is usually captive. Xerox sales people do not sell HP.”
I work for a large commercial building repairing a/c equipment. I have worked for companies that repair and sell residential equipment in my town. I was not restricted to only sell or repair one brand. If you as a consumer called me and said “James, I have a Trane 5 ton Gas Pack rooftop unit and would like to have it replaced, do you sell them? For an example, if I only sold Goodman, I would have to say no. My next task would be to convince the customer why Goodman is the best. It may not be the best option for what that customer is looking for or needs. You also said, “same reason why I hire salespeople that have sold to different companies. They are looking for people wanting to win. They are not looking for someone who is looking to draw a paycheck. Remember they are sales people and sales people get paid on commission, mostly. If you work you get paid.
Tom, are you looking for a paycheck only? If you give people an outstanding product, excellent customer service, and the product that meets their needs not by you own omission wanting to win, myself as a contractor I would not want to be captive I would want to sell Lennox, Trane, Bryant, Rheem, Carrier, American Standard, etc. This would be non-captive. The freedom to choose my carriers with out a fear of having my contact cancelled. I do not want to sell only one a/c brand. Which would be better for my customers, one brand or many bands to choose from to meet my clients needs? Remember I am in business for myself I get who I get to represent. I do not work for Trane so I do not have to cater to Trane. Just like PFS, I do not work for them as a business owner. I work for myself. I can chose whomever I want to represent, that will meet my client’s needs. My definition of winning is simply that.

You keep saying quality matters to you. Great, my carriers are high quality also. OK I would ask you to run a quote for me but since you are not an agent you are a CLIENT, you cannot compare with me apples for apples against my products. If you have no facts to back up what you are ranting about, your argument holds no water. When you can prove it, let’s discuss it.

You talk about ROP, Term, and cash valve policies. You must have a misunderstanding on what each product is designed for. Term is what it is a temporary policy. Why would an agent offer term insurance? Because protection of family. Term is cheapest in the beginning, as you get older it and have quote run it will be more expensive. If you sell bad term policies you are right the term policies will go up increase, as you get older, unless you have a guaranteed term. You can even select a term that works for your client’s needs with some carriers. ROP is great for a young couple that is not established in life. If you do not have money to invest, you can use ROP policy. It’s like a saving plan, when you get older you can at the end of that term you simply invest it into an annuity, IRA or whatever. You cannot lose. You can use the ROP as an investment tool while protecting the family. There is an application for this product. Again, some carriers have ROP select a term to meet your client’s needs. If you an insurance policy when you are young and healthy, you have several advantages. It will be the cheapest because of your age and health, you can have guaranteed premiums, and you can have a conversion feature with no evidence of insurability from the same carrier. Convertible and guaranteed is what makes a policy a good term policy. Insurance 101. Cash valve does not belong to the client; it belongs to the insurance company. When you die you do not get it. You only get the death benefit. Remember, if you are offering an ROP policy it is real easy to explain to the client how it works unless you are one of those sneaky sales people who want to win. It is your job to ask questions and listen, take notes and put the right product for your clients needs. If they have money to invest maybe a ROP is not for them. You are not just a sales person you helping them make wise decisions with there future. Broken record again, if you concerned about your pocket book more that doing the right thing you are a failure.

Tom, you talk about Cancer & LTD. You stated. “ Again you need to read, I am a client with more knowledge than you. Since you said you offer these worthless products, does that mean you will sell what ever you can make a buck on? Does that mean you will steal from your client, any chance you can? Tom if you are going to insult me please have facts I could say how ignorant you are because you know more than the agent about PFS then you contradict yourself by saying,” As for PFS, I am not sure if they sell them.” Tom which is it? Then you say, “ But when I chatted with my Agent about these an other products I was interested in, he said read about these policies on the internet, the Wall street journal, and other Professional Publications that talk about money. They all said what I said. They are worthless. Accidental and Cancer are both worthless since they do not pay out often. As for LTD, policies outside work cost considerable more and do not cover as much.” Again you must know your products and explain them to your clients. Let them make the decision if it right for them. You can fit their needs by reviewing what is important to your clients, remember the asking the client questions, taking notes and really listening what is important to them and their families? By the way if your agent told you to jump off the San Francisco Bridge would you? Give me your number and I will sell you some ocean front property in Arizona for a great price. Again, that was another example of me being unprofessional, just like you are insulting me about being a crook any selling whatever to gain a buck. Let’s stick to facts. I do not nor do I admit to selling products to clients that are not good for them.

You are exactly right about my securities license, I am not selfish if a client has a need for this type of investment I will gladly recommend an agent from our group to present this option. That’s why I do a fact finder. I am in the process of getting my license however I cannot and will break the law. In PFS, since you know so much do they start out of the gate with this license? How long does it take before they recommend you start the process after coming on board? Does PFS pay for this license? Come on I am curious.

Tom Stated, “Again, I am not an agent. just a well informed client. It seems you and Michael/Thomas have the same affliction. The inability to read and understand. Please stick to facts. Your command of the English language is driven only by insults and you have a real difficult time expressing yourself in non-abrasive manner. I am glad you are a well-informed CLIENT.

Tom you also said, “Second, your attitude about this shows me you need to quit. If I had an agent that acted like you, I would drop you in a second.” Tom if I was talking to you talked to me this way in person I would turn around and walk out. You are a pain in the rear and you must feel the need to argue only to argue. Being a business owner I answer to my self and if I walk away from a client you would be the perfect example. I do not need to insure you. Look up you PFS guy and let him take your abuse. If I worked for PFS and walked away from you whom would you call, PFS and complain? I bet you would. Me being my own business owner and you called to complain to me, I do not have to take it because just like you saying I do not care about you. I want to have clients that need my services and are willing to work with me and fight me just to be the alpha male and beat their chests. I am in a highly regulated field by the state DOI. Mr. Well informed client, It is a pleasure not continuing you little game.

Again Tom like you said, “Can you do better, possibly. But I have already proved you pay more have less. You have to sell bad products to clients to make up the difference. You admitted you sell products that are not good for your clients. You said you will quit if you ever find out that you are not doing the best for the client. I ahve already proved this in several areas, I love to see your termination notice.” Tom, you twist facts and have the ability to not understand. Again, I am not here to bash anyone. I am here to explain the concept and my opinions. If you need me to feed you ego, TOM YOU WIN! YOU ARE THE SMARTEST AND MOST UNDERSTANDING PERSON ON THIS PLANET. BY FAR DO NOT QUIT WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU ARE THE BEST. By the way how many mirrors do you have in your house? I also am glad you eat at the finest restaurants, sleep at the finest hotels, and drive the finest cars. It must be great being TOM. Was you also born with a silver spoon in your mouth? I know that you are A WELL-INFORMED CLIENT and not a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Tom you will never see my termination letter Mr. Well-Informed CLIENT.

Other bloggers in this thread, I apologize for me not being able to carry one this long and drawn out expression of opinions. It has gone into a direction that is not positive. If you argue with fools then why do I want to be taken down to their level? Tom has his belief and I have mine. I know that what I am doing is the correct way of doing things and therefore I must only answer for myself. I do not wish to carry on this rebuttal since there really is no positive outcome. I have been called ignorant, a crook, and other negative things, so who really wins. Especially, when I return the treatment by the same way that I was being treated, no one wins. When I joined this blog my real intentions were to only share my experiences with PFS and not be negative with anyone or any company. I just wanted to state my truthful experiences with PFS recruitment process. Tom has taken it from a friendly level to a negative one with no facts only experiences from his agent and hearsay. I do not know if it was a game to him or it was something fun for his since he is a well-informed client and not a PFS agent. I cannot apologize for him by I can apologize for me for getting off track. It took a different turn than what it should have. Tom is happy with PFS as a CLIENT as he states and I am happy with the companies I am with, end of story. Good Luck Tom. Tomorrow I think I will sell some good term policies.

Again good luck in life I will not debate you further.

Since Bill Just wants to attack, he must be one of those insurance agents that are losing business to Primerica Value.
Let me answer some of his questions.

This is typical of Insurance agents that can’t take the heat. They can’t deal with the FACTS so they attack the person.

Bill @ 8:34 pm
It clear to see that Tom does not master excellent communicational skills. He does not have the power to influence anyone with his opinions with out facts.

Well Since I am in sales and have millions of dollars in liquid assets on top of the properties I own, I am good at sales. I am not good at being the lowest price, but then again I am into making money, and not giving it away.
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Feel good statements just do not count. I feel that_______. I take this personally because____________. It sounds more and more like Tom is a chick.

Bill, I am not a chick. But then again you might be one of the posters that is hiding from the truth. I am more of man than you will ever be.
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He uses his arguments the same way Hitler was able to paint a vision of Germany that would be pure and powerful. Except millions believed in Hitler, but everyone can see right through Tom’s arguments.

First, Hitler was a great leader. His only failing is that his philosophy was flawed. He took a country that was in the middle of a depression, people starving and made it into a super power of the time. Do I agree with everything he did? Hell NO. But he was a great leader. If the War went differently, it might be looked at differently.

Oh By the way did you forget our Camps for the Japanese-Americans?
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Tom has no ethics as a sale woman. Tom tries to abuse the power of persuasion to manipulate his customers to purchase what he sells.

Bill, am I woman or a man? You must be afraid of my words or you would attack them and not the person. As for ethics, I can always put mine up against any Insurance salesperson. I have left businesses because the ethics of management. I have fired people over ethical problems.

But why not talk about the products you sell, if you can defend them. James and Michael Can’t so they attack me.
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From his business ethics I hope that he is on salary not commission because he must go hungry. He talks about driving a BMW when he wishes he had a Yugo while riding on public transportation.

Again You need to be able to read. I am an owner of a company that hires salepeople. I am not on commission or salary, but an OWNER. I am curious do you know what this means.
As for the BMW, it is nice and it is not leased. I use the comparison of the BMW and Yugo to the products that have been pushed here.

But keep attacking.
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This is America and there should be competition. Should we as consumer purchase from one company or purchase one product? NO.

I am glad you agree. Their needs to be competition. But then again let make it fair. If you are using History, why not look at the history. Most Insurance companies have a histroy of lying stealing and conning their clients. They have been selling cash value for decades, and now they are finding out the consumer is not as stupid as they thought, they need to go somewhere else. They got involved in Term companies. This was there way to hedge their bets. Now what are those term com[panies coming up with but a new product called ROP. Since competent advisers say not to get involved with this, jsut like cash value, I will go with them over any salespeople.
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Everyone can see that Tom is like that snake oil salesperson and provides us with a very nice dog and pony show. Keep posting Tom. Last night I saw your program on TBS the three stooges with Tom, Tom, & Tom. Thanks for the laughs and by all means, please post again. Tomas, el burro sabe mas que tu. Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw!

I am curious Other than attacking me, what was the Psot supposed to be. It did not talk about Primerica. It did not talk about Products. I guess I mad someoen mad, and they had to hide behind a ficticious name.

Keep at it Micheal or James, you must be getting desperate.

Just to clarify a few things that Tom has alluded to:

1) My name is Michael Thomas. Not “Michael or Thomas” and not “Michael/Thomas”. I don’t know why he is confused, as I have been very clear about who I am. Alternatively, Tom himself has admitted that he does not even use his real name.

Well I did a search on your Name for a license in state of California, It did not come up. I have ahd this problem before, and I was looking for your license. That did come up but had a different name. I am curious do you use your given name or are you hiding behind a different name?

As for your reading skills, I said I do not place my name and number here. It would lead to calls from idiots like you trying to get me to change my plan. It has happened before, and since I get enough calls from idiots like you, trying to get me to invest with them buy from them, I try to keep it down to a minimum.
Changing companies now would be like changing rowboats mid stream. It is fun to watch, but the person doing the changing is most likely going to get drenched.
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2) I resigned from PFS, October 2006, with a “clean” U5. And I didn’t “get” my own office, I already had one. I stayed in the same office that I’ve been in since 2000. See links above.

That is great. But you can be asked to leave for many reasons.Securities is one reason. You could ahve done something unethical, or improper. Since you have to be fulltime, you might have not been working the business. We will never truly know because all we have is your word.
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3) I brought 24 PFS Reps with me when I left to found my own firm. Since then I have attracted FOUR ex-Primerica RVPs, and have 104 Reps. Of which 22 are securities-licensed.

So you admit you have taken people from Primerica. Did you know that most people in the business world consider that a theft? Is it a practice yes, but it is still a theft.

But remember anyone can promise anything. It is funny that you say this. We lost another salesperson to another company. We have the same rules that Primerica has about poaching. When he tries to call these clients, lawyers send a letter saying to stop, or you will be sued. He will find out the hard way that the grass is not greener on the other side. The only difference between Primerica and you is the fact that Primerica is not going after your agents, but you are going after the trained ones in Primerica.
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4) I have provided addresses, links, photos and statistics, and yet the best that people like Tom can do is slander and re-directing the discussion board OFF of the topic. The REAL topic is the viability of Primerica as a business opportunity, and service-provider for clients.

Wrong, the topic of this board is the business opportunity. You ahve made it slander board with your name calling, and you half-truths.

Why not comment on the facts of Primerica takes in 2% of the premium dollars, but covers 6% of the face value? Or how about it is one of the few companies out there that refunds the money if you change your mind? Or how about teh value you get for the 99 dollars?

No you bring up NO-Value Term, and try to compare it. I am curious why do you have promote your business here. Are you not getting enough referrals? I can understand that you clients may not know enough people since they are so price conscience, but then again you will only get the bottom feeders.
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5) Tom makes a lot statements that are incorrect. For example, “One thing. Well here is one. Your licenses. To be equal to Primerica you need to give the following for $99.
1.Life Health and Disability License
2. Class for this License.
3. E and O insurance.
4. Finger Printing
5. Background check.
6. Securities TEst and License
7 Loan origination License.
8. Training on what is out there. (OOPS this is free to clients too.)

IN Michael’s/Thomas’ state of California this is worth over $2000. ”

Wrong. I thought he doesn’t work for PFS? Right. We all know it’s a PFS’er masquerading as a client. I’ll bet money he’s a newly-joined 20-something living in an apartment.

Again, You do not know what you are saying. Just because I have information it makes me an agent. By that way, SInce I know the Law, I am a lawyer. Since I understand medicine and can talk about it, I am a doctor. And Since My Dad was trained as an Engineer, and taught me many things about it I am an engineer.

I am a client. I get to see the OP meetings, and training when I want because they want me to join. I get the information about what the $99 deposit covers. If you are not happy with the information, tough. But the truth is the truth.
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Anyway, here’s the truth. At PFS, you get a LIFE license ONLY for $199 (not $99). In California, without PFS, it is $450. So a PFS’er saves $250. Fine. However, this does NOT include the securities license! It is the same as an independent as it is at PFS.

Again You are wrong. In California, it is $99. the new program something you might not understand includes Securities, Mortgage and Auto and Home *(Referrals). Since you do not know this, may be you do not anything eles you are posting.

The Mortgage appointment has been around for many years. You should have known this, but are you being stupid or deceptive?

Securities is covered now, along with Auto and Home owners referrals pay out. Now they ahve already gotten people to go through the program and get everything covered since this is over 1 year old. But then again why not call home office and ask them, instead of trusting someoen who definitely does not have a clue.

And before you ask, I have relatives in California, that I visited in June. I went to a Primerica office there, got the information, and talked to the RVP there. So that he does nto get hate calls, I will not give out the name and number, but then again, you might think I am a RVP since I talked to them too, Michael.

If you can’t get your facts straight on simple things like what is covered when you join Priemrica, how do you expect anyone to trust what else you post. One can only guess what other lies and deceptive things you ahve posted.
————-

6) Tom said, “Please give me some facts. Like how Primerica takes in 2% of the premium, but writes 6% of the coverages. That is a fact.”

I gave him facts right above his post and he doesn’t address them. Nor does any other Primerican. Tom says, “I don’t know, I’m just a client.” Well, then stop posting, if you don’t know product details.

Since this about OPORTUNITY and not Products, why are you selling here. Are you afraid that someone that does his homework can beat you any day?

Since it is about opportunity, and I am salesleader in my business, I know how much it takes in pain, sweat and money to start a business. To be able to have part time income, to work yourself into a full-time position, and be an owenr and have all the advantages of your own business, Primerica is the way. Michael says he easily opened his own office. He forgets to say that he was trained by Primerica, and was able to do what he did because of Primerica. If he says differently he is a liar. He is nto the same person that started in Primerica, or he would never needed Primerica.

Since this is about Opportunity please stop selling, or you will prove that the only reason why you are here is because you can’t make it on you own without stealing from others.
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Why doesn’t he, or others, respond to the life insurance and variable annuity facts I posted? Because they can’t.

You are right. Because I am a client, and Agents can’t post here. They get into trouble. this si what He wants them to do so he will have less competition. He is afraid of competition since he sells by price. Price sellers are constantly lowering their price, or giving things away. Value sellers and buyers know there are cheaper products, but chose to stay with the value over no value.
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Then, he makes a statement about PFS Life takes 2% of premium and writes 6% of face amount. Really?

a) I would like to see where that stat is. I’ve never heard that. I doubt that PFS writes 2% of premiums in the industry. They’re not even in the Top 25. See my post a while back.

Well Since you do not have accurate information about how much it cost to join, what it covers, and how you get it, why woudl this suprise me at all. Just like your posts about what Primerica does, you do not have accurate and up to date information. If you lack the truth, all your posts are suspect. How many of them are lies, deceptive or just plain wrong? No one will know, but anyone going to a Primerica meeting will see what is the truth. Do not follow the people here but make an informed decision. If he is wrong in any area his posts are not trustworthy.
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b) Even if true…. so what? That doesn’t improve the product any. It is a meaningless statistic.

I am curious, You statisics are good, and any one else is meaningless? This is absurd. Just remember you said this. It is like sales amn saying all those things about Primerica, had to eat his words. (The one that ran with his tail between his legs.) I am curious, where do you get the gall to say this? I know you know everything. Keep posting please so everyone can see that your village is looking for you.
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Please, lets talk about the products’ FACTS!

First, This Blog is about the Company and opportuinty. You made it about the Products. So why not get back to true reason why it was created. Not something you want to pollute the world with.
———-

He’s says he’s an educated consumer, so show us why would he choose Primerica life over AIG, Banner, West Coast Life or other term carriers that have:

a) higher ratings than PFS
b) longer guarantees
c) better options and riders
d) Higher Terminal Illness Benefits
e) AND COSTS LESS!

There we go again with cost or Price. I keep bringing up the BMW example, but he can’t seem to get it. As for these companies, if you did your research, you would find out that they are owned by Cash value Companies. Since I did not nor will I ever invest in companies that are inherently bad, like Cigarettes, South Africa during Apatheid, and other companies, and chose not to send my money that way. Now you may not have the ethics to stay away from thsoe companies, but I do.

But getting back to this part of the post. All he has is his word. He already ahs said that it is $199 not $99. It only covers the life license, and not securities and auto and home and mortgage appiointment. If you check it out in california, you will find out that he is wrong here. Then everythign he posts is suspect. Needs to be triple checked and made sure of no errors.

Do you use your Errors and Ommissions Insurance Daily or Hourly?
———————–

This is what the PFS’ers never want to talk about. The FACTS. They love it when they compete against expensive cash-value. THEN, they’re all about facts and figures! But, when a superior term, mortgage, or variable annuity comes along, now it’s all fluff like “crusade” and “loyalty” and such nonsense. “Just the facts, please”.

Your facts are suspect. Primerica does not just compete with Cash value but with the No-Value term you sell. Remember if you only go by price, you will always will be beaten. Now if you give them Value, then you ahve something. Some of my customers will buy from me because of the value I have given them, either percieved or real. Since you go by price, the next guy that is cheaper will take them away.
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Side note: Tom made a nasty comment about the CPA I wrote about that couldn’t join PFS. He made a snide remark implying that she wasn’t “allowed” or that something was wrong with her.

Again, he’s grasping at straws… Truth: she’s a CPA and PFS see’s that as a conflict, because of her profession, not her character. I also couldn’t hire P&C agents, mortgage lenders, accountants, bank tellers, or real estate professionals.

Good, And I can see why it is a conflict. IF you can’t maybe your facts are not straight. (199 vs 99) All because of conflict of interests. But your information is wrong. They are given a year to make a choice after 1 year. ( At least Mortgage Borkers. I met one in one of my many office visits.)They can still sell get licensed and then at the end of the year they decide if they want to stay. But then they get the licenses for $99. I can see only a win for the agent. What do you offer your people, pay all your licensing fees for all the licenses, and then you can make money. That is unless you steal from other companies.
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Now, I can. And I have. I have three CPAs in my firm, two P&C Agency OWNERS, a real estate professional, and a bank teller.

No conflict.

Well Since you are Small time adviser, that is not in many different fields, you may not have conflict. But then again you were wrong again about the process and who can sign up. (Yes it is harder and you need to do more paperwork, but it is do able.)
And if you were wrong in this post and before, why are you not wrong about everything you post?
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And, oh. That CPA that Tom “dumped” on, closed a variable annuity this weekend for $600,000. Her commission is $15,600. My override is the same (she’s at 40%, and I’m at 80%).

Great for her. She is making money. But I still do not trust you, and your numbers. (199 vs 99 is just one example).
And by the way if she exists, then she took more money from the client. I did a variable annuities with Primerica. the cost to me was $1000 in fees. or 1%. That means I have more money in my annuity than your client did, which is great to me. And by the way if she made $15.600 she only made 26%, not 40%(15.600/6= 2600 ( The total 100 thousands being invested.) 2600/100.000= .26 or 26%. Please redo your math before you post here. 40% is more like 240,000 of 600,000. (600,000 *.40 = 240,000) It shows your ignorance in math, and if you are saying that we are cheaper and basic math is a problem, your figures are suspect.
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a) I would have lost all this at PFS. So would she. And so would the client. (The product is the top in the industry – absolutely fantastic).

Since Primerica has Variable Annuities, how would you lose it? Could it be that you may not be taking that much from the client, but then again wasn’t it you that said that it is your fiduciary duty to make sure more money stays with teh client? If you are taking a higher cut, you must be stealing from the clients.
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b) A PFS RVP earns 49% of VAs.

Those following this thread….

a) Your clients get access to superior products when YOU are independent. You owe it to them.

Wrong. Because I have already proved that their products are not equal. I know since I have done the research. Now if you have no ethics, then you can buy their products. But good Christians need to know what the companies they buy from are doing with the profits. The profits for their term goes to Cash value Companies. ( Check the Stock Holders)Most people do not invest knowingly in products that have known to hurt people. How many people invest in cigarettes companies? Or do you remember South Africa and Apatheid?

They get paid more on the Variable products. That means there is less money for the client. Or do you think the Companies give money free to agents?
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b) Your downlines have a much more valid income opportunity as an independent (by the way, my top Rep will get her Ring THIS month!)

And in WMA/WFG they made the same bragging. The only thing about it is they make money off products taht are not good for the clients. Some that you mentioned is VA that pay more, which means less is in the account. Interest only Loans, good for banks and mortgage brokers, but not good for clients.There are many itens but I am getting tired of typing.
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c) Your opportunity is better in every was as an independent.

Everything you can do at PFS, you can do better on the “outside”. There is no benefit of staying at PFS.

Other than you get a proven system. 30 years old. Your system is a copy at best of Primerica. Remember the Movie “Coming to America” Eddie Murphy. It showed how one guy was stealing from McDonalds to get a head. You just steal from Primerica. You remind me of the people that are trying to steal my saels staff at my business. They are told bring over your sales list. They are only interested in what they will bring, not the agent. As soon as they use them up they are gone.
Is that how you work too?
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Have you ever thought of Running for Congress? You would be good with all those crooks up there, stealing the money from the people.

Where are the people who agree with Tom? No one has to post a name or company. Where are they?

Tom you can’t be serious in your post. If you are back away from the kool-aid pitcher.

Tom you also mentioned something about a person with Diabetes or High Blood Pressure. You mentioned that Primerica may not cover them. Well my thinking is outside of Primerica so I know other carriers will offer coverage.

So this brings up a question. What do Primeica agents do in a situation when Primerica Life won’t offer coverage? Do they just say sorry or suggest they go to an independent agent? In that situation what would be the right thing to do?

If it’s a husband and wife situation where one can get coverage and the other can’t can you guess what is going to happen?

Considering your an expert, answer me this. In a case of divorce how does a husband and wife split off from the policy to give them each an individual (PFS) policy?

For the life of me I can’t remember how that works..

I am so glad you keep posting Michael. It shows you how much you do not know about Primerica.

Michael Thomas @ 3:51 pm
James asked a great question, “In a case of divorce how does a husband and wife split off from the policy to give them each an individual (PFS) policy?”

Short answer: it’s a pain.

You are right, unless you are planning on getting a divorce when you do the policy, this is one thing that people do not plan on it. But paying for something you hope you never use is a waste of money That is the extra policy fees.
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You have to write a new policy on the spouse, and then delete the spouse-rider from the original.

Sounds easy, but it’s a lot of red-tape. And, the new policy is based upon the spouse’s CURRENT age, not their original age, thus increasing the cost.

IMO, the combined husband/wife policies that Primerica writes are always problematic.

Again, You are wrong, but I am seeing from the outside looking in. Most policies save money on fees if you link them. The bad thing for the agent it lowers their amount of policies. Costing them money in Bonuses.
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1) The waiver-of-premium is ONLY on the primary, not the spouse (many PFS’ers don’t realize this).

I am surprise you can say this. Since it is a rider it is on all the people that are working.
—————-
2) The agent only gets paid on, and credit for, $1,500 of annual-premium on the TOTAL combined policy, not each one. More money for PFS.

Here you are wrong. I have seen the checks on policies that were higher. You only get 1500 on contest, but you get paid on the tiotal premium. But coming from a guy that does not even know what the deposit covers for joining, it does not surprise most of his knowledge on Primerica is wrong.
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They say it is to reduce the cost because the TOTAL coverage on husband and wife count towards the age-bands. This is true. However, I can get tow individual policies are that STILL LESS EXPENSIVE that Primerica’s combined policy.

Here we go with cheaper policies again. Since you focus on the price, you never sell value. This is a weak closer. Someone that focuses on price, is always going to have to replace his clients when they find it cheaper. That is why you constantly ahve to look for new clients. What did they call that having a low persistancy? Since this is how you get your bonuses, I can see why you left.
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FYI: I mentioned AIG’s new 35-year level, guaranteed term (with higher ratings than PFS). Actually, its better than that… they have a totally customizable term-length from 15 to 35 years. A client could get a 17-year, 24-year, 34-year etc.

Very nice.

Again with selling Products. This is about the opportunity. And since you keep saying cheaper, here is another story. My Office manager got some cheap cartridges. They blew up in my Printer and cost me a repair and a replacement. Now that this has happened, the Office manager understands quality. You know the toner guy that sold it to us, is hiding from them.

This is when you go with cheap products and not value driven products.

James,

You are right that there is many costs in a policy.
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James @ 7:00 pm
Tom there are reason’s why some policies have a lower cost. One has to do with the scope of underwriting. Then there’s compensation and then there’s marketing. There is a reason why PFS or any other company price their products the way they do.

You are right, but you hit upon one of the biggest cost. Marketing. Did you know that most companies spend billions on marketing? If the policies are so good, why do you have to spend that much? Could it be that the policies are not as good? Word of mouth advertising is the least expensive way to advertise.
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The mortality tables have been updated in the past few years. Then there’s the difference between the ratings for men and women which some companies seperate and another may blend them together and rate as unisex..

You are right women live longer. But that is changing. Did you know when I was younger the difference was atleast 10 years. Now it is around 7 years, depending who is doing the figuring. It is also depends on the race too. By your calculations, they should discriminate against balck males since they have the highest mortality rates. NOw you know they can’t, but that is the road you are going down.
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Which company can rate a person better? One who takes blood, urine, verifies height weight or one who swabs a cheek? Insurance companies look at large numbers.

You want to talk opportunity. Ok that’s easy. Noncaptive. Immediate ownership. Freedom to have outside activity. More compensation. No requirement to give up legs. Never a full-time requirement. No requirement to have an office.

Well you are wrong here so much let me hit on the answer. First non-captive means no support. You are an independent. Unless you work undersomeone then you are really not independent. Who trains you? Oh the person who is getting your override. So you do have pay him part of your money to get the training. No one does anything for free. If you say he does, then either you are naive, or think that everyone here is.

Immediate Ownership: Well the IRS says you are a business owners, but you say they are not. You are an individual, where a government entity says something who are you going to trust. Since the government gives the tax benefits to Primerica Agents, I guess you are wrong here too.

Freedom to do outside activity: Well as long as there is no conflict, they let you do anything you want to. Now if it has to do with money, or other insurances, they like to limit it. This is so that they have a higher level of ethics. Your upline may not have any problems with ethical violations, but Primerica wants to keep everything above board. If you are in some of the these professions, they allow them to work a year and then make a decision. Most of the time their full-time job does not allow them.

More compensation: This means one of two things, either the company is taking less, or the customer is paying more. Now money is not the only cost. You remember about how the companies will call and try to convert. That is a cost. Remember how they let their other businesses call them, so they may not make as much but they make more on the name in a list. That is something that most people hate.

Giving up Legs, Training Sales: Let me ask you a simple question. Would you give up 10,000 a month in business to get multiple 10,000 a month businesses? Would you give up 5 to 6 sales to get 50 to 60 sales? Losing a leg is not bad. Your way is you are always looking out yourself. What do I lose? That is definitely not a team driven position. But then as an independent, it is you pull the cart. You are always looking for the sale.

The only time you have to go fulltime is when you go to RVP. And this is because you need to handle all the compliance issues. Up to this point you are under someone and they are responsible. Once you become responsible, then you need to devote your full focus on the business. And as a client I want someone to watch the store, to be full-time. An example of companies that did not do this is WMA/WFG. They got into so much trouble. WMA had to close down, but then they jsut created WFG. They will be eventually closed since they do the same practises.

No Office: Same thing as above. But isn’t the main point of owning a business is to have a key. That is the pride of beign an owner. Working out of you home is so ghetto. I had one company selling my company toner that was local. So I went to office location, it was there garage. I know many people work out of their home, and a home based business is great. But if I am going to give my families lifelihood to someone, I want an office. I want a place to go to where I can see and touch the funiture. I want a company that has a main headquarters and I am able to call and get answers. And not have to go through a maze of people in another country that really do not know how to speak the english language. But then I am the customer, and I what I value more is service and value. The problem is we have gotten used to settling, but I think that will change soon.
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Now knowing what you know about Primerica what can they offer that’s better. You can start with ownership..Compare immediate ownership (clients and downline) against PFS requirements.

This should be good. You can even have your Rep. coach you..

Well since I already Debunked everything you posted above, let me go to what is better:

First: Cost of getting licensed and involved. Since you have not named your company I am not sure, but since I still have the paper work from my last meeting I attended in California here is what you get for the $99:
1. Life license
2. Securities Licensed
3. Mortgage Appointment
4. Primerica PLP
5. All classes for the above licenses.
6. All books for the above licenses.
7. Ability to get paid on referrels for Auto and Home.

You get what? You get to pay for you licenses? And you pay for E adn O insurance? What else do you ahve to pay? I guess that big compensation check is need for the thousands of dollars you need to just be in business.

Second, you get training. Now I know you think that training is not needed but if you are going to know how to counter someone statement on price, You need training. If you want to learn what is out there, you need training.

Third, you need support. This is to make sure you do not make mistakes, along with not beign dis-honest. the best example is WMA. They were nortorious to lying cheating and stealing. IT is the one reason why they got closed down. the bad thing is that the loophole in the law says that you can close one business and open another one in the same type. It is how many of the toner Pirates keep in business. It is also how many of the Financial Adisers stay in business, closing one office and creating a new one. Isn’t the so Michael?

James, These three things are easy ones. I kept it easy so it would not overload you. I did not need a rep to tell me these things, since this is stuff I know. I am sure if I had his help this post would have exceeded any limit that they have here for characters.