I was hanging out with some of my family this weekend and an interesting & frustrating discussion came up about the appropriateness of asking for a discount from fellow Christians.
The discussion started because of this story:
A hard-working painter (Joe) we all knew from church went over to give an estimate to another church-member (Mike). Joe goes in looks at all of Mike’s rooms, and measures, calculates, etc – whatever needs to be done to give an estimate. Joe then gives Mike his estimate of what he thinks it will cost to do the job. Mike then asks, “What’s my ‘Brother Discount’?” as if to suggest that he should get an even cheaper price than what Joe just told him – because he is a fellow Christian.
When I heard this story I immediately had a couple thoughts…
- How does Mike know that Joe didn’t already discount the price?
- If Mike can’t afford to pay what Joe is charging, I think Joe probably would have preferred that he (A) kindly explain that or (B) just not do business with him, rather than be manipulated into offering a lower price.
The balance
As I am writing this, I am thinking about the difficulty of maintaining a proper balance with this. Everyone needs to get paid, and everyone wants a deal. I like getting a deal as much as the next guy, but I also like blessing those who help me. So, if at all possible, I would rather give Joe MORE than what he was charging me, rather than trying to get him to discount the price. I know that isn’t always possible, but I think if we all did this the world would be a better place.
Receiving vs. Taking
You know, I think it comes down to the difference between receiving and taking. I am convinced that God’s blessings can’t be gotten by us TAKING them by our own initiative, but rather they should be RECEIVED when they appear.
John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven.” John 3:27
A gift can only be received if it is given. If it is taken, then it really isn’t a gift in the first place. For example, if a child takes a $20 bill out of his father’s wallet, it is a much different thing than if the father gave the child a $20 gift – or even the same $20 bill for that matter. Because the child took the $20, he also stole his father’s ability to give it to him and lost the opportunity for it to be received.
Also, from my experience it is a lot more fun to be given something, rather than taking advantage of someone to get it.
Back to discounts
So as I think about all this, I don’t think I would have asked Joe for a “deserved” discount that Mike did. And I am realizing that what irks me about what Mike did was that he expected it, I think if he had asked if there was a discount for church members, I would feel a little better about it.
Thinking about myself, I didn’t have any problem negotiating prices with our home builders – for some reason that seems different – or am I being hypocritical? Is it the difference between small business and big business? Or fellow Christians and everyone else? Or is it just the fact that Mike seemed to think that he deserved something extra?
What do you think?
I feel like this has been a mish-mash of wandering thoughts, but I’d like to hear your wandering thoughts! Can you relate with Joe (or Mike)? Is it just a matter of an entitlement mentality versus kindly asking?
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Hi Bob,
I agree with your opinion that Mike was a little nervy asking for the discount, especially the way he went about it. My husband is a carpenter for 30+ years and when he gives an estimate, he’s always more than fair towards the other person and sometimes loses money because the job may become more involved than anticipated. You have no idea how many people say, “will you cut me a break in price because I’m your (fill in blank) friend, cousin, neighbor, co-worker, old classmate, etc. It’s very frustrating and he’s stopped doing work for most people because it causes hard feelings when he doesn’t give them a bigger discount that he already is.
I agree with you. There is a difference in asking for a discount and arrogantly expecting a discount. It is also one thing to ask a stranger for a discount and completely different thing to ask someone you know for a discount. I tend to assume the people I know are already offering me a good deal.
There’s nothing wrong with trying to negotiate a deal, but I agree that the way Mike went about it wasn’t classy. If Mike had just counter offered or asked if there was any way to get the price down that would have been fine. It never hurts to ask, as long as you’re willing to accept a no from the other person. You never know what situations people are in. Maybe Joe really needs the work and he’s willing to knock a few hundred off to get the job, or maybe he’s super busy and has no reason to discount his prices because he can’t keep up at the rate he’s charging already. Maybe Mike’s not in any hurry and Joe has his slow season coming up, and they can work out a deal then. They both give a little, Joe coming down in price and Mike waiting on getting the work done, and they both get a little, Joe gets a confirmed job for the slow season and Mike gets a discount. If you’re giving a discount though you should let it be known. You want things to be clear.
Ebay now has the “make an offer” listings with buy it now, and I just made a deal with a guy using that. I bought an Audio seminar for half what he was asking. I noticed that he had listed it previously and hadn’t had any luck so I made an offer of half, which I thought was a fair price and I was willing to pay. I wasn’t willing to pay full price. He declined the offer, and I was ok with that, but a week later after not selling the item again he said he would accept my offer. I was happy because I got the item I wanted at the price I wanted, and I’m assuming the seller was happy because they sold their item, probably after realizing they weren’t getting very far at the price they had listed. Win-Win.
Well, I guess I’m on the other side of the issue. I think it’s perfectly fine to ask – and it’s perfectly fine for the other person to say “sorry, that’s as low as I can go” or “Oh, it’s already included.” That’s part of haggling. Yes, it is a little harder when it’s a friend, but both parties want to get the best deal possible. The fact that he said it like he expected it is just part of the game. I never ask “Do you have a military discount?” at a store, but rather “What is your military discount?” It puts them a little more on the spot.
I agree with most of you. The way Mike asked appeared as he was expecting the discount. My husband is an electrician and when he gives a price, he gives a fair price, and if the client is a friend/friend of a friend/or a fellow christian, he discounts the price, so his estimate price is already discounted. Some people are trying to find the best price and that is fine, but others have make the “asking for a discount” a game to take advantage of others and that is not becoming of a “brother”.
If I were Mike, I would have gotten an estimate prior to asking Joe to estimate, that way I would have perspective on whether Joe was including a discount and therefore wouldn’t have to ask.
I largely agree with your response to the example. I found the “Brother Discount” offensive on a few levels. It doesn’t take into account the service provider’s overhead and expenses or anything about the service provider at all…in short, it is being very selfish and ungodly. Also, like you said, it doesn’t take into account that a discount may, in fact, already have been given. Thirdly, it comes across as a demand rather than a request. If the person was to turn it down, the wording is meant to be guilt inducing and chances are that it would be broadcast in a negative way. No one deserves a discount based solely on their relationship with the person. There are relatives I would not discount my services to and some that would. The bottom line is that offering a discount should be up to the service provider or business owner and/or politely requested.
The example that you gave of the child and the $20 (gift or taken from parent’s wallet) opens up a whole other can of worms…what right do people have to stipulate what happens to a gift? Do they have a right to say that a gift of money should be spent in a stipulated manner or that a child’s gift may only be used at their house? Is putting stipulations on gifts making it less of a gift and more of a contract? Should the recipient be bound to the stipulations or is a gift solely theirs and they be free to do with it as they see fit?
Joe should have replied with: “Glad you asked. Because we are ‘Brothers’ why don’t you pay me an extra 10%.”
@ Matthew
Right on. Joe should use humor and not get upset at it. Life is too short!!!!
I think that it would be a bad thing for Christians to give discounts to other Christians. It is religious discrimination. We already have enough Nepotism and cronyism in America already.
Instead of getting the quote thanking him for his time, Mike seemed to think that he deserved something extra. I have seen this happen when my husband has ask for work to be done by a relative and thinking he should get a better discount. I told him they are running a business and if a discount is forthcoming he would be told and if not compare his price with other quotes and let them know your decision.
We had an very devout elderly man in our church who proudly displayed a sign over his antiques restoration business which boldly read “No Discount for Christians”. When people asked, he explained how he works hard to set a fair price for everyone and added how many time he was able to witness to non-believers over the message. He was a great man.
I’ve never heard of anyone explicitly having a “brother discount.” Showing favoritism doesn’t sound like a Christian concept. It brings to mind Luke 6:32-36:
“For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them…”
I realize that I am late in replying/commenting on this issue – it has been a busy week for me. This issue has come up many times for my son, who is a family law attorney. He also attends a large church in the area and, as a result, the pastoral staff often refers church members to my son (and other attorneys too – don’t want to give the impression that he is the only one that is referred to). I can’t tell you how many times potential clients/church members walk in the door expecting a discount and/or a free consultation from him. In the early days of opening his practice, it was a huge financial struggle for him to keep afloat, pay the office bills and home bills. His hourly rate was actually lower than the prevailing hourly rate in the area because he figured that he was new in the practice of law as well as new in the area. Made no difference…church members expected him to give a lower rate and/or free consultation. Attorneys have nothing to sell but their time and expertise. Not only that, but it seemed some really strange “members” showed up at his door too. I agree with Bob that to be a blessing to a fellow “brother” or “sister”, offer more than the price quoted to you! I believe it is more blessed to give than receive and it would surely be in this case.
Reminds me of a brother who does charcoal drawings/caricatures. If you ask him his price he’ll say – $100 for Non-Christians, discount of 10% for Christians, but for backsliders like you, plus 20%. All in good fun, of course.
Maybe Mike should have stopped to think what he would say if their positions were reversed.
I have never had the nerve to ask for a discount just because we went to the same church. As a musician who does weddings and such, I have offered discounts or even free services, when I wanted to. When younger and naive, I gave family free service because they were family. (Some of them were the very ones telling my mom she was wasting money on my musical education!) No longer. It has to be a choice whether or not Joe wants to give the discount, not because he is pressured into it.