Primerica – The pros and cons

Sounds to me like there isn’t a great business in saving money for people in this way, which kind of makes sense.

IO looked into Primeamerica a few years ago, and what Becky reported about them having mutual funds with comparitively low returns was true then too. It seemed to me at the time that after I sold mutual funds to all of my friends and aquaintences, I was pretty much out of leads.

Bob,
I’m curious, can you list some of the reasons why you haven’t joined the company yet. I’ve analyzed this company from every angle and sure it’s not perfect but compared to ALL other part-time opportunities out there this can’t be beaten.

I’ve tried lots of stuff like filling up surveys for hours at a time to only get paid a couple of bucks for the effort. Tried amway/quixtar for a bit until I figured out that they really make their money from all the “must have” “training” CD’s and paid seminars.

Primerica business overview seminar is FREE. The FNA is FREE. On Monday’s and Friday’s I go to my RVP office and watch EPN (our internal training channel) for FREE. Sure my RVP pays something but he doesn’t charge me a cover fee to sit in his office and watch also. He really wants me to improve and succeed because it’s in everybody’s best interest. And I go because I’m really eager to learn more about finances (so that I can retire earlier and not work to 65 like everybody else)

Financial services is just that a service, there is no product handling so Primerica is one of the purest MLM opportunities. Other MLM fails and gets classified as scams either because of all the “add-ons”, “expensive education CD’s”, “product handling”, “paid seminars” etc.

So please, enlighten me as a non-Primerica yet open-minded person what is stopping you from joining?

@Bob
Sorry for getting to this post so late — as you know, I’ve been busy.

I believe the combination of what you and Jack wrote paints a fairly good picture of what Primerica is all about, and I feel that there’s not much substance I can add to it. However, I can share my short-lived Primerica experience with you.

I was recruited here in the St. Louis area a few months ago, and I must say, I really like what they do. They have a good business model, and the people (at the office I visited…not sure about the others) actually have a heart to help the struggling middle-class of America. The motto of my church is “Honor God. Help People.” So, it was inspiring to see that same spirit on the Primerica people.

There were a couple of turn-offs for me. First: the fact that many of the folks (especially the higher-ups) seemed extremely over zealous. They had a goofy air about them…like a super-hyped team spirit (You know…”Go team, go!”), and that’s not who I am. I dreaded doing the team cheers at the meetings. It came off as cheesy. Now, I have no clue if they do that at other Primerica offices. That was just my experience, but I hear a lot of MLM companies/meetings are like that anyway. No big deal, I was slowly able to overlook that. The second thing that turned me off was the referral/recruiting process. For every FNA (Financial Needs Analysis) that they do for you, they will ask you to refer 10 people (preferably struggling middle-class families) to their services. I’m a single, 26-year old guy, and I honestly don’t know that many families that fit that bill. I know of some families like that from church, but that’s not the place to refer/recruit. Plus, I was very uncomfortable asking my friends, who were skeptical of Primerica and other MLMs in the first place. Nevertheless, this is a small price to pay considering they do the FNA for free (I believe its estimated value is around $1000).

Aside from those turn-offs, I like Primerica. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out for me. My schedule was just too busy. Between church activities, loved ones, and my current job, I just felt that I wasn’t able to put enough time/effort into Primerica. Plus, with all the extra driving to the team meetings alone, my gasoline bill was really adding up.

All in all, I think Primerica is good. If you have a heart to help others, the drive and determination to be successful, and can give it your time, then you may want to look into it. It definitely is something that can eventually become quite lucrative by building passive income.

For all stock lovers. There is a rumor that Primerica is going under its own ticker name. If this is the case then this will be a strong stock to purchase.

As a Christian who tries to be his brother’s keeper and a financial/insurance trained professional with NOTHING to sell (I have a corporate home office job), I would recommend you steer a wide path around Primerica reps amd the funky cool-aid they’re selling.

Lets examine the ‘help’ someone got from re-doing their finances:

A Primerica bi-weekly mortgage with $6,000 in points (plus closing costs)

An overpriced Primarica term life policy (save 30-50% by shopping around)

Extra money invested in loaded brokerage account funds OR company provided variable annuity accounts.

Thanks for all the ‘help’

How do I know? I’ve had a FNA done. I’m also experienced enough to ask for all industry required disclosure forms.

You spoke of recruiting new people? That’s their only marketing method. The first thing they want from you is a list of 20 of your friends and family. Since you’re new and un-licensed in the financial services world, you ‘upline’ will ‘help’ you call on your friends and family; but if sales are made, who gets the money? If you don’t have a insurance or NASD license, they do. But don’t worry recruit some new people, call on their family and friends and keep that money.

Why the continous recruitment of people? Because 99% burn out making little or no money.

You speak of Primerica spinning off of Citibank? I’m sure Citi would love the opportunity to improve their image. Primerica will have a more difficult time recruiting without the misleading “come work for a Citibank company” cold calls.

Want a job in this industry? Find an entry-level job at a reputible company and learn the ropes.

As a Primerica Rep, the following are the facts:

1. A pyramid scheme is based on recruiting with the intention of making money off of the entry fees. These fees are normally pretty high. Then they mask it with products that they know aren’t really going to sell.

Primerica- $99 = life insurance class, teacher, books/materials, AND reimbursement of fees for a passed test. Seems like they wouldn’t stand to get rich off of this???

2. Primerica’s financial services are competitive. No one ever said that Primerica was the CHEAPEST, but for the families we serve, it makes their situation much better than it was or would have been. In most cases they haven’t and never would SHOP for a better bargain. So we educate them on how money works and allow them to make the decision. For families who have NEVER had ANY of these products, this could only help them get to a better place financially.

3. Recruiting – Primerica allows you to make money from marketing CITI’s services whether you recruit or not. An employee would be happy with that. Primerica promotes business ownership which involves recruiting in order to build an organization. It’s methods my not be typical, but you have to admit at some level it is very effective. EVERY business recruits and trains people in order to grow.

Now here is a point to ponder. If I had a business in your neighborhood that only sold CITI products and services and I was successful at it. Then I came to you and said, “hey come work for me and market these products”. Most people that were in the market would say “you’re giving me a job, sure when do I start”. THE MINUTE I SAY, “oh yeah and you have the opportunity to be ME and own your own shop, let me show you how to get it done.”…then it’s a scam…lol

John,

I will try to answer your questions as best I can as a Primerica Rep.

Primerica is a subsidiary of Citigroup. You can go to citigroup.com and see that. Citigroup chose Primerica to market it’s services to middle income familes. With 6 million clients, Primerica has a pretty strong LINK with Citigroup.

Primerica doesn’t charge you to work WITH them. The $99 fee covers your Life insurance class, books, etc. As well as paperwork that needs to be filed with the state. We are regulated just like any other company and have to pass the same exams. They don’t make a dime off of you just joining.

We get paid just like any other financial services company. We get commissions on each piece of business that we close. I can make money this way without EVER recruiting ANYONE. The recruiting aspect comes from the nature of ANY business. You recruit to build your organization. You recruit and train each individual to work independently just like you and the perk is that you are rewarded for training that person. You get a percentage of each piece of business that THEY close. No one wants to work hard forever, so you build a team.

Also, the only way our business would TOP OFF is if the debt epidemic in the U.S. was completely solved or if people became completely happy with their current income. Until then, the market is wide open.

Thousands of people may be necessary to make millions, but to be a six figure earner the head count is minimal as long as your team is productive.

Scott,

First and foremost, Pro/Con listings on the web are like looking at reviews for any product that you wish to purchase. If you look at every review, no matter how good the product is, you will find negative reviews. The same applies with most large corporations. So what you MUST rely on is our ratings with the entities that regulate us: ambest, NASD, SEC, etc. Then on a representative level you need to speak with those who actually are doing well and see what their experience has been. We often take the advice of those who the opportunity was wrong for in the first place. Truth be told it is definitely not for everyone, but if it is a fit for YOU and your situation…no one can assess that but YOU.

Our focus is to help families get into a better financial situation than they are currently. So we give a simple education on financial concepts….things that you could normally do on your own, but currently are not. We understand that most of middle America is in debt because they are not aware of these concepts. We provide the vehicle for you to get to a better financial place by mapping out where you are and how to get to where you want to be based on YOUR specific case. Next, of course we have an array of services that can help you accomplish that and that is where the commission comes in.

The key is that Primerica along with Citigroup knows that a lot of middle America cannot afford a financial planner or advisor. We will never claim to be financial planners, but we can teach you about how money works and how to make it work for you.

The rep that you had the informal interview with more than like ly looking to peak interest and then invite you to a business opportunity meeting where most of those questions can be answered in full.

I have a couple of friends who are in the company, and I too have mixed feelings. I feel that Primerica do offer “okay” products and in alot of cases, can save a family hundres of dollars on their mortage…which they should invest the difference, hence Primerica does nothing financial wise for my friends who are agents. They work hard at it EVERYDAY. Soliciting recruits (which I do not like), they approach people in a restroom, mall, parking lot, grocery store, gas stations, and even when they are out on dates. They have been conditioned into these little obsesses Primericans, And everytime I am doing my research on PFS and other financial and come back to them with hard core facts, they always use the same lines many of the agents uses on this blog and other blolgs across the net. To some degree I would even call them brainwashed. They would neglect their families precious time (even kids) to attend late night meetings ( up to midnight), and weekends. I believe it could be a great opporrtunity, but only for a small few. But I think it can be a big strain on families because people change when they join PFS, because they are fed so much BS, and they make you feel as though the job you are working is crap, and the degree you hard for in school. I am sure many of you could relate who have families and friends who joined. And my friends have no regard on the negative effect they have on their failies.

last note, in addition to the 199 fee (which is eventually refunded)…you also pay 25 dollars a month to have acces to their online data base (POL).

Let me tell you……run from Primerica, I invest 1200.00 a year with them and I lose 200.00 of that money every year for the past 3 years. Haven’t been able to get a hold of my “REP” (what a lazy POS) for 6 months. Try moving your money out of their crap investments and you get slammed with outrageous “Redemption Fees”. I’m finally biting the bullet taking my 20% loss over 6 years and paying my outrageous redemption fees and going to find a reputable broker who is going to sell me overpriced insurance…… $80.00 a month for a $400,000.00 life insurance policy that I got 6 years ago (when I was 24) and in great health.

Sheesh…shame on me, and shame on you if you give them one dime….you’ve been warned

P.S. anyone can reccomend a reputable broker for me…details appreciated…

Thanks,

Aaron

I have read alot about Primerica the last few days or so. I’m really sitting on the fence at this point. My good friend and neighbor called me about it a couple of nights ago and I sat down with him and I guess a RVP. I’m a bid Dave Ramsey fan. One thing that Dave has said is not to buy (or buy into)something you don’t understand.
I understood what they were trying to do as far as selling insurance and refi’s and other things like that. I do believe American middle-class families are in need of a financial make-over as a whole, so on that note, I believe in the system.
What I really did not understand is the business end of the deal. They gave me no clear cut answer as to how they actually make their money.
When my neighbor called me about this, he wouldn’t tell me about it, just that he wanted to talk with me about something new he was doing. That part also left a bad taste in my mouth. He is normally not that way, so I kind of wonder if maybe he was coached to say that.
The next morning, a member of my wife’s family called and said she was also working with Primerica. My wife told her I had spoken with a different rep the night before and within 1 hour they were over at my house. When they got there, they asked me who the rep was and where he was from. I told them and they seemed very angered about another rep trying to recruit me, statint that their system was much better than the other RVP. This seemed very fishy to me for some reason.

Primerica doesn’t seem like a scam, just a mediocre operation at best from a employee standpoint. I mean, if they think you’re good enough to work for them, why wouldn’t they just hire you as an employee and pay you a salary and benefits (for say 6 months to a year) to help you get off the ground?
It also seems like they want you to give them your referrals before you can actually make a profit for doing it(while you are training).

It also seems like you donate alot of your precious free time away from your family while you get licensed to try to sell the products and recruit new people before you see much money at all. I mean, wouldn’t someone just be better off to go out and get a part-time job instead to help pay for the tests to get the licenses, then go independent so they could give their customers more options.

This is just my take on it. My friend is very knowledgable about finances so this is why I’m on the fence about this. Sorry for the length, just wanted to state how I felt.

Hello everyone!
I’m glad I finally found a blog about this that doesn’t have it’s last post in November 2006. lol
Some posters on here (and other bloggs) are making the whole situation a little more focused for me, in making a decision. Thank You!

I’m supposed to attend the first training meeting with Primerica this Friday. I have been to two meetings with my trainer though.
Quick info: I have NO financial experience. I’m not all about the money. I’m going to school for an Environmental Science (Extended) Degree in Denver CO.
I’m not all about the money, and I could never live with myself if I messed someone’s retirement fund by involving them with Primerica. Even though that person accepted the service themselves, I as part of it. Anyway…
I am a strong believer in “Do what you love, and the money will follow”; especially for my career. Maybe it’s a little bit too optimistic, but I choose to be that way.

So to answer some questions let me tell you what I’ve learned so far.
I asked my trainer some of the exact questions you guys are asking. REMEMBER, the answers are pretty much what the trainer has told me, and I did very little research on them. I hope they help, especially as an insider’s info.

1. How does Primerica actually make their money if they offer such good rates?
Well first if they beat your current set up (say the way you pay your debt, and through what bank etc) they can actually buy out that loan from whoever you’re with, and transfer it to CitiBank or w/e. Though Citi won’t make as much money as the people you were with before, THEY did just buy out that loan. So if they do this with many loans, then the money does come in. And if people are happy with what happened to them, they are bound to recommend these services to their friends.

2. The mutual funds are NOT owned by Citi or Primerica; they just use other companies that have good ratings. At least that’s what the trainer said. I have not done any research on this.

3. The guy told me, I have to work for my money. But in terms of pay per hour, it can be a good earning. Recruiting people onto my team (3 people) will make me more money, but I SHOULD be able to be OK just by myself. Also, I can recruit just one person, and get a slight increase in my commission percentage.

4. It is like a pyramid scheme, except that it is different.
Everyone’s work benefits everyone. So you gotta treat employees well, because it all comes back to you.
You don’t sell products, but services, and as I said, some can really help people (like the debt deals).
You CAN move up to the top, and get this, WITHOUT becoming competition for the person that was your trainer. Because if my RVP make me an RVP, he gets rewarded for doing that. And not just once, but every year. The amounts depend from 50K-100K.

That’s it for now, I’ll try and post more later.

Also, remember that since people are ‘contracted’ by Primerica, every office will have different people running it. So experiences of people joining the company, or using their services or encountering representatives, will all depend on the people that they deal with.

I’m trying to do as much research as possible, as I am still on the fence with joining or not.
I work at a restaurant right now, and the money is good, while going to school. Once summer begins, I’ll need more than just the restaurant (and for a college student, it’s not easy top get a job job, as in not sales at the local clothing store or working for target etc.).

I am considering joining, but I will uphold myself to the standards I have now – my ethics, actually HELPING people and making sure I don’t screw anyone over so I can make a few more dollars.

My plan is to pay attention to what really works, and recommended it. For example, they seem to excel at helping families get rid of their debt faster and cheaper. I will recommend this to my friends.

But when it comes to investing in mutual funds and what not, so far I would NOT recommend it. Though history shows MFs are a good route, in today’s economy MFs aren’t going to be too stable.

So that is my plan. I’m supposed to get my trainer guy in front of 6 families and let him do the talking blah blah. I will do that, but I will warn all 6 parties not to sign up for the mutual funds (at least for now) or do anything else besides the debt consolidation and etc, if the FNA shows that Primerica can indeed beat the current set up they have.

Any more advice will be great. Also, PLEASE post any questions you would like me to ask my trainer!

Thank You!

Yes you say find a entry level position in a reputable company but then I have to charge people $1500-$2500 and up in order for me to help them. And if they don’t have at least $25,000.00 to invest you will not help them. How many (average) americans have $25k to invest or can afford to pay you/reputable companies 1500.00-2,500.00 or more for your services. I joined two months ago and yes we have to go through the training/licensing process but if I did it your way I (average) american would have to pay thousands for training/education. But the main reason I joined is because my husbands grandfather got robbed by two of the “whole life” insurance agency. We got nothing back to bury him. He had to pay an extra $700-900 to be cremated. My mother is 81 yrs. old, too old to do something better. Thank God her plot is paid for at least. I say I’m getting a good deal for $99.00. I want to expose all those other criminals selling whole life and keeping peoples money instead of to them like it should be.

The second comment by me has a correction at the bottom. I was typing too fast because I’m on lunch from my full time jail “job”. I want to add that most average americans don’t understand life insurance policies. They don’t understand how the policy works (hidden clauses) in “whole life” etc. Primerica teaches the clients/recruits how both types of insurances work for or against them. My upline told one of my potential clients to keep his term life insurance that he currently had instead of getting Primerica’s offer because he had been rated with preexisting conditions. I would say that is pretty honest on our part. What do you think “whole life” agents would have told him. i have a mutual fund through my job and it gives me great returns. I believe in Mutual Funds.

If your licensed in the industry, you should know you dont talk bad about other companies. Tell me why we have a rating of a+www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2006_Nov_2/ai_n16854073. What is your full name and license number. I know if you are licensed you have been taught about badmouthing other companies. You can lose your license for misrepresenting companies you know nothing about.

Since you are just SUCH an expert, maybe you should consider doing the research yourself??? Primericas Term life coverage is actually the lowest premium out!! Not only that, but do you know how much your life insurance company paid out in death benefits last year?? I can tell you Primerica paid out over a billion in death benefit in 2007, as opposed to average joes company that maybe maxed out 400 million in ‘07. Its alright your company might pay out your death benefit, But I know I’m not gonna leave an investment of that magnitude to chance because they just wanna make a few excuses not to pay. Oh, and Primerica isnt a spin of citi bank. Its actually a sister company of Citi bank, in the much larger Citigroup. I’de really like to take a look at the FNA you had done, maybe you’re confusing it with your boys over at edward jones. You know that advertising buys you all the credibility that you could ever want lol

You pay $99 to get licensed. Awesome deal right?
Yet you have to give up 6 sales to your trainer (totalling hudreds in lost commissions) and take a 25% commission for yourself which is very low. Then at some point give up an agency leg group for VP promotion.
Ouch I don’t know about you but I would rather pay the $300 it takes to get licensed (it is not $600 like they say) and keep my clients at 60% commission with policies that are more competitive.
They always say they are not the cheapest but I fail to find justification for the increased premium when most other companies issue guaranteed level premiums beyond 20 years and they do not.
They also must pay for their brochures and FNA subscription when most other companies do free needs analysis without monthly subscription fees.
Their agents are limited in products and training. They cannot offer anything other than what they sell which means they often have to place clients in a box.
Their office in Bountiful, Utah was raided for numerous violations of insurance code.
As they are now ready to be sold (reported by both the Wall Street Journal and Bloomber News 5/6/08) you have to wonder what will happen to their agencies. Remember that under their contract they do not own the clients or agents.
Their ratings dropped twice on fitchratings.com and the outlook is listed negative. I think that the great days of PFS are done.
Most companies are 40% to 50% cheaper than they are. Specially when rating preferred women because they do something called unisex rating. They bill women nearly the same as men.
I find that most of their agents are strongly indoctrinated to actually beleive anything their VP tells them no matter how far fetched it may be.
Now that their parent company will “unload” them soon we’ll see what happens to their ratings and credibility.

XRL

natalie you can get licensed and be what’s called a referring agent. Just refer people to your RVP and do your nursing thing and since you will be licensed you can be compensated, but of course follow your individual states laws. Ask your RVP about it. I think at one time they called it being an inactive rep.

if you are whining because you’ve never built a business then you need a hug. go ask your bos why he “recruits” or “hires” massive employees? mayb because he wants to have all the labor done for him? have you ever noticed that you employees do all the work and dont get paid your worth while your BOSS calls theshots, determines your income and lives the dream life? gt your mind right and instead of judging you need to get with it before you get fired or downsized!

Primerica is what most would call a pyrimid, but someone tell me what company is not. Look, no one person can run a succesfull business by themselves. When someone response to your resume on careerbuilder they are looking to add a piece to the puzzle to better the business, same here. The people below us in the workforce has a strong influence on how sucessfull we are. I recently met with a RVP about a job position and I more or less interviewed him. One thing that really caught my attention is how spiritual the guy was, which is a big plus when I consider a job.He was laid back, maybe a little too much. The meeting lasted about an hour and a half and was by no means tense. He was very open and did not stray from the fact that part of your earnings would come from recruiting. For the most part you’ll be offering clients advice on how to take thier current income, cut every corner and plan for the future. In other words what can you live without to pay off your debt. For this you dont get paid, you get paid if the consumer takes out a loan or accepts any other services like an insurance policy. The RVP told me on average per person you’ll make $300-$500 which aint bad. The upfront fee is $99 and $25 a month online access fees. THE COMPANY CANT GET RICH ON THESE PENNY ANNY FEES. The profit comes from the services. If you are not a salesman dont join. If you are shy dont join. If you’ve never had a commission job, start part time as I am. I’ve successfully work sales and can care less if someone rejects my services. You need the same mind frame for this job.

My name is Michael Thomas,

Was in Primerica for over 14 years, and a Regional Vice President for many of them.

In 2006 I resigned and went independent to found my own Financial Planning firm.

My 2 cents….

From a product perspective…. PFS’ philosophies are mostly correct (but not all), but their products are overpriced. Their term insurance is very expensive and onlyguaranteed for 20 years (they have “scheduled” term for 35 years, but not guaranteed). The industry standard is 30 years guaranteed.

Their “own” mutual funds, now with Legg Mason, are average performers with above-average fees. The saving grace was that you could offer American Funds, but it was frowned upon.

Their mortgages are only Citi Mortgages (not Citi Bank), and very, very expensive.

As for being an Agent… the incomes are very low for the industry. For example, I had the highest commission level at 62% for securities, I nowhave an 80% contract. My life insurance commissions were advanced only for 9 months, now I get a 100% advance. Primerica’s mortgages commissions were capped, now they are not.

Bottom line: go independent and offer better AND less-expensive products, and ear more income so you can spend more time advising your clients.

Primerica isn’t “bad”, but they certainly are not at the cutting-edge of financial services.

so u r saying if u get the licenses, Primerica owns u? and what do u mean by that?
>> i have a cousing who help me to get in to these bussiness, which i really do not like, he explained me only how could i make a lot of money. now, he is a realtor as well, and he goes to stand outside stores to make appointments. how do u, used to or who helped to sell products?

Did I just see a PFS agent say that they were the heart and soul of Citi?
I hate to burst your bubble but not only is Citi selling your so called “heart and soul” but you clearly do not understand the predicament you are in.
Do you not understand that they reserve the right to sell or dissolve this heart and soul?
They called the divisions for sale (PFS included) hobbies. Did you read that? Hobbies!
Do you have a contract that says they promise to maintain your agency integrity when sold, spun or dissolved?
I thought you guys loved to point these things out in contracts. Doesn’t it apply now?
What if a new company decides to have you guys sell whole life only now?
They own you, it can happen!
All of a sudden you guys are flying blind as bats and you accept these uncertain terms on loyalty to what?
You are just business to them. There is no mission other than the dollar at the end of the day there.

Do you really think that PFS would be a great spin off?
Without a large company’s support where will ratings go but down?
Do you thinkg they would allow you to replace all those old policies?
Have you read your own contracts?

What about reputation?
Are you not aware of the insurance raid in Bountiful, Utah?
A PFS office was allegedly doing illegal things. Do a web search on the matter. Why is truth bad mouthing?
I think if PFS actually gets spun off, they would have quite an uphill battle to change certain aspects of their reputation.
The “we are a member of Citi” cushion is leaving and without them some people might call you the Amway of insurance.

Why is it that all PFS agents think that truth is “bad mouthing”?
If truth was bad mouthing then everyting you tell clients about whole life insurance would be illegal “bad mouthing” right?
You guys need to open your eyes and stop labeling truth as bad mouthing. Test your own company.

Run quotes, learn to understand other term products and find someone who can expand your training beyond your current limits.
Why is it that other people who are sharing information with some of you are labeled “nay sayers”?
Maybe we are fact-sayers.
I am not a nay-sayer. I do very well, I like this business, I am a yes-sayer. I say nay to teh limitations imposed on you. You don’t know any better so you think you know all there is to know.

Maybe most PFS agents have never known any training other than their own. Maybe PFS agents don’t know that there is more out there and that your RVP does not want you to know.
Under my fiduciary obligation it is up to me to inform the client of comparison issues becuase I am the licensed professional.
Someone up there actually said that they hope his clients do their own home work. Is that because you know there are better products out there but cannot or will not tell them?
You are required by law to do your best to get them a product that fits them best but your company says their “wonder term” is good for everyone with guaranteed level premiums only up to 20 years and unisex rates.
Wonder term is not very flexible either since it is not fully convertible when needed. Not to mention very expensive for term life.
Why are you idolizing a company as if the company is in charge of your success. You are!
They have you sell your families policies that in my opinion are not all that good.
I like the fact that I believe in buy term and invest the difference but I look for a good guaranteed term instead of fitting everyone into whatever your company dictates.
I just think you guys in PFS can do better. I did.

XRL

I work for a MAJOR corpoation that has been around about 45 years. In the past couple of years all of us “little people” have been instructed to recruit new people. I also happen to be one of the people asked to train these folks. Both of these duties are outside of my job description. I was never hired to do either of these things. I don’t make a dime extra for all the people I have brought in and helped train. Lately, those same new recruits have been used to replace the folks with tenure….gee, I wonder why? That’s corporate America(by the way, this is a very well respected company). Now, THAT is a scam if I ever heard one. I have been working for Primerica part time for the past couple of months and I am very happy. I am still in the licensing phase of the employment process. I am curious to see if I can make it based on what I ALONE produce. I was skeptical at first, but I had to change my way of thinking. What is wrong with presenting someone with an opportunty to make more money? I don’t mind that the person who trained me gets a piece of my action, because I will get a piece of the action from those I sign on and they off of their folks….Where I am(my full time job), we have a few fat cats making the lions share of the money off of our backs. It is a pyramid with all the money going to the top. I have no problem with spending $99.00 to get some very expensive licensing. Also, the office I work out of have been nothing but first class to me. They are just regular people who seem to enjoy doing the right thing and they are making money doing it. What more can I ask for? I hope it works out. I hate the snobby view that regular folks can’t learn how money and insurance works. I get suspicious when I am lead to believe that I am too dumb to understand. I would rather talk to someone in my kitchen that go to a fancy office building that I know is being funded from money I am sure they are screwing me out of. Just my opinion….

JR,

Factual information is not defamation. You would not post your license number here as if you did you would have every person in the net place false complaints just because they don’t like your opinion so come on be for real. Would you post your phone number here too?

This law you mention is intended to avoid unfair advantages during a sale with agents from different companies.
Insurance agents may not make false statements to a client about another company in order to give their own product an unfair advantage.

I don’t disagree with that law and I don’t need to change it. Don’t you think you may be taking it a bit out of context.

Perharps you misunderstood your class but I have made no false statements nor have made any derogatory comments and lastly there is no solicitation here. I have stated completely verifiable information that is available to the public.

I understand it may not be about money with you. If you are ok with being paid less you have every right to be happy about that but I am puzzled as to what it would be about then?
I mean I’d love to work with them if I could find some fulfilling reason that would justify me giving up my commission, objectivity, my business and with the prospect of the division being sold, potentially my agency.

I tried but I just could not come to terms with some things there.

They sale a product that in my opinion costs too much, doesn’t give a client a written guarantee past 20 years, charges women too much, does not offer flexible riders and uses a one size fits all mentality.
If you want to work that way more power to you but I cannot knowingly sell a person a product with those limitations. Why?
Because one day I may have to deal with the fact that I will have to look into someone’s eyes as I hand out a claim check and I could have delivered double the benefit for the same premium with another company.

XRL

just remembered that i would follow up and post after some appointments…

I am enjoying it so far, things have went well. I’ve made some money; far more than what i’ve put in… Haven’t quite covered the time i’ve put in but i’m going to do 3 life sales in a couple of days so in addition to a couple of other things in the works that will probable get me close to compensating my time.

I’m not sure where all this energy comes from to spend time writing blogs trying to discourage people from primerica. trolling around these blogs and parroting the same exact things over and over.

I’ve found it to be exactly what I thought it to be and much more. Of course our office is pretty incredible…

When you work with a family and they almost have tears in their eyes as they thank you for what you’ve done to educate them and help them. That’s worth more than the money that you make from it to me. Of course some people are beyond help or don’t need your help.

to address some of the “negatives” that are repeated thousands of times on the net…

1. captive agent – yes I signed a contract with a no-compete clause. If you work for Primerica you will too. If you don’t like that then don’t do it… I decided if i’m going to do this kind of work it’ll be with primerica and nobody else anyway.
2. You can make more at other places besides primerica – Maybe that is true when you talk about starting out in one aspect of the business. True it’s possible to start your own independent office and make more money than starting with primerica and working your way up. Get you certifications, licenses pay a big licensing fee with whoever you join to use their name, etc… I have no interest to open an edward jones office or my own independent office. I don’t have the ability or the resources. With primerica, less risk/less reward at first, i get to “give it my best shot” part time, and If i am good at what i do, I have a chance to have my own office and have a 6 figure income. It takes hard work and dedication to getting in front of people.
3. “you can get it cheaper” – There’s always a cheaper price for anything. I’ve been to the term quote sites and checked pricing. You get a big difference in price from the top to bottom of the results list. So does that mean the bottom of the list is a “rip-off?” No, that’s just their price for your class and group that you fit in.

that’s enough said.

I joined because I like the financial services industry, couldn’t make a transition to a full time to some other company so Primerica was perfect for me…

I pretty much dismiss all the critics online not because I don’t think they have valid arguments but because they obviously have deeper motivations to repeat over and over again the same things that they’ve said many other times and others have said.

I don’t really have time for that so this will probably be my last post… I used to wonder why some of the successful ones in Primerica didn’t respond to posts like this but now I can see why after i’ve been around some of them…

If your considering Primerica, i’d say try it out and see what happens, you may like it and it may work out great for you. On the other hand it may not be for you or you may not be the right fit for Primerica… i’m not afraid to try…

I’m getting my Sr Rep promotion and well on my way to District promotion… We’ll see what happens….

Hi this is Michael again.

I would like to response to macg4ira’s comments above. Typical of PFS’ers, which I regularly hear from them (after 16 years I still have a lot friends in the company).

“1. captive agent – yes I signed a contract with a no-compete clause. If you work for Primerica you will too. If you don’t like that then don’t do it… I decided if i’m going to do this kind of work it’ll be with primerica and nobody else anyway.”

There is no benefit to being captive. If you are independent you can do the same thing a captive can, but even more. THIS IS BETTER FOR THE CLIENT. PERIOD.

“You can make more at other places besides primerica – Maybe that is true when you talk about starting out in one aspect of the business. True it’s possible to start your own independent office and make more money than starting with primerica and working your way up. Get you certifications, licenses pay a big licensing fee with whoever you join to use their name..”

Yeah, A LOT MORE. PFS’ers are often shocked when I show them just HOW much more goes to the rep, versus the company when being independent. It sounds like mo big deal when talking about theoretically, but put some real-life example to the test and I think you’ll change your mind. Example, marketing a $100,000 MetLife Variable Annuity with PFS, an RVP will earn approximately $3,400. Do the same as an independent (with a BETTER MetLife product not avaialbe to PFS’ers), I’ll make $5,600. Same cost to the client, by the way. This holds true for all levels in PFS, proportionally, of course.

““you can get it cheaper” – There’s always a cheaper price for anything.”

The problem is, it’s not even close. Sure, a couple of bucks is no big deal, but its NOT a couple of bucks. Especially PFS’ term insurance and loans are VERY expensive. Example:

Banner – 35 year term (Primerica only has a guaranteed for 20 years), Female, age 39, Preferred NT, $400,000 = $466 annually with Banner Life.

Run that quote with PFS and see what happens.

By the way, the fees for going independent aren’t any difference than PFS, except for the life license fee, which PFs subsidizes, but it’s only a savings a of a few hundred dollars one-time. Also, part-time is available with a number of firms, not just PFS. I, for example, often hire people part-time.

Bottom-line: anything you can do at PFS, you can do better and cheaper elsewhere. EVERYTHING.

–
Michael Paulding Thomas – http://michaelpauldingthomas.com

“Live life to the fullest, fight for what you believe in, and go down swinging.”

CEO of Thomas Financial Group
http://www.thomasfinancialgroup.net

Well this is getting good.
That guy is just a srep don’t expect him to know anything more than what he is told through the propaganda channels.
Forgive me for pointing out that the only “class” that product you speak of is in would be the:
1- Way too expensive for term without any features that warrant the price class.
Your loyalty should belong with your client and not with a single company with a very uncertain future I might add. Why is it these guys never question their company?
Why do they lack pure objectivity?
Man they are the perfect soldiers aren’t they?
Just do and don’t ask questions or you’ll be branded NEGATIVE, UNCOACHABLE, QUITTER ETC…
I have yet to find a single VP or higher that will tackle this competition/training issue. All they do is dance around it but when it comes to comparing they all fail to deliver.
That guy with Banner life product is right.

The problem is very simple.

They cannot offer anything other than what they are issued and because of this, they have no alternative other than to justify their limitations while relying on collective support for reassurance. However far fetched it may be.

If they had access to more services, it is only clear that the success that eludes them so much would be easier to attain.
I personally think once you discover what captivity does to your business and clients you should just immediately get out but that is just my opinion.

XRL

Hi Lynn!

I hate to make pretty girls angry

I am not being hostile and I certainly have not spoken any hateful words. Just educate me if you think I am wrong. I posed my questions and my own opinions based on my experience (somewhat vast).
Clearly you care. After all you answered right?
For you or any of those guys to eat my lunch that product would have to get a 50% reduction in price, come with a knowledgeable objective agent (beyond one product) and have better guarantees.

XRL

Run this quote at Term4sale.com

Zip Code: Yours
Male:
Age: June 15, 1969
Smoker
Health: Regular/Average
20yr. Guaranteed
Annually
Coverage: $400,000

As a Primerica agent if your client showed you this what would you say? Remember the rule of 72? Remember you do what’s right 100% of the time.

I used this one because I couldn’t get a PFS quote with other situations. This is to be used just as an example. PFS agents have just one company to compete against an independent. Yes we know. If not you, who?

If this were you and you had limited funds, whould you just get the PFS policy or shop? Remember before you answer your an independent contractor with PFS, not an employee. There’s no requirement to purchase Primerica products..Let the spin begin.

Oh wait go back and change the premium from annual to monthly..Maybe now you will get why some of us left. That’s just one example..

Hello Dave,

I’ll take your cue and let’s “clear some things up”, as you say.

I’ve have posted already about the superior products, and cheaper in the independent market. So, let’s discuss the real issue for most, which is building a sustainable career and income for our families.

I was in Primerica / ALW from 1989 to 2006. My lineage was Art – Bob Turley – Larry Weidel – Andy Young – Bruce Caulk – Nasser Mehrzad – me (Michael Thomas).

I was an RVP for the last 10 years.
I am a Mensa member.

And yet, the most I ever made was $84,000 in one year.

Maybe it was just me, but I doubt it.

No one in my base shop ever broke $30,000 in one year.

Maybe it was them, but I doubt it.

I have 10 full-time reps. In Southern California.

In Oct 2006, I and most of my team quit PFS and went indpendent.

Last month I earned $51,000.

I top downline earned $35,000 (she was my top downline in PFS and never broke $20k).

I hired a former salesperson for Paychex who was earning over $100k. I would never have been able to recruit him in PFS, at least not with my track record.

Now, I could and did. He went full-time in January and earned over $7,500. In April in earned over $17,000. Brand new guy.

Another couple that used to me direct to the big Doug Hartman in PFS, and never earned over $10k in one year there, came with me and in Feb or March earned over $26k.

Som let’s talk real stuff here. One of the reasons I left is that NO ONE IN MY TEAM WAS MAKING ANY MONEY!!!!!!!

Maybe it was me, or them. But I don’t think so.

Ask yourself how long you have been in Primerica going out in the field, away from your family, working on weekends etc. Aren’t tired of trying to recruit EVERYONE you meet. God, I hate that. Sometimes I just want to meet someone and NOT try to recruit them, and not feel guilty about it.

Isn’t it time you stop selling a “pipe dream” to your downlines. TRULY look at your downline team and ask them if PFS is really proving them with a sustainable business and income?

As you said, “if what you’re currently doing isn’t getting you the results you want, then maybe it’s time to try something else.
“

Wow, sounds like you have the best way to handle insurance sales. You are a pro and you know what’s right for everyone. I’m not sure why you are wasting your time worrying about what Primerica does.

Hi Dave,

you are right. I know nothing about you or your team. I can only speak for myself and my team.

Maybe you are making all the income you want, with the freedoms you deservce. Maybe all your downlines are supporting their familes with their PFS income. I wasn’t. And my downlines were’t. I could no long stand up on a Thursday night OPP meeting and sell the dream while I was living a nightmare. I was getting to the point that was almost envious of people that had a “good job” and were making consistent income. Bad times.

Again, maybe it was me. But I don’t think so.

What I wrote above is the truth.

Just today, Friday, June 6, 2008, I had another downline get a securities check for a Hartford Variable Annuity in the amount of $22,000. She was full-time with me in PFS for 4 years and never broke that income in a year.

Perhaps the business IS the same now as it was for Doug Hartman years ago, but I don’t think so. All I can tell you is that once I left and had access to the independent market I was able to marktet more competetive loans, variable annuities, term life and more mutual funds (disclaimer, the mutual funds are the SAME as I sold in PFS, which is American Funds). And, I get more of the comissions, instead of the company. A lot more.

I and my team are doing the same things we did at PFS, but with better products for the consumer and more income to us. And more freedoms. We can have our OWN businesses. Incorporate as a “S” or “C” corp. Advertise. Have other business interests. Etc.

If you want to overcharge your clienst, and give up your income to PFS, be my guest.

I will tell you this… I replace A LOT of pfs life and loans. In fact, in my office I coined a phrase, “Replace Primerica Life, and invest the difference.”

BTW, if you find it hard to belive that after 17 years my income IS the fault PFS, then CALL or EMAIL me. I have nothing to hide. I’ll enlighten you.

PFS stole the best years of my life. I was strongly discouraged from associating with anyone in the financial industry who was not with PFS. The biggest mistake I ever made in my professional career was staying with PFS for as along as I did. It hurt me, it hurt my client, and possibly, most importantly, it hurt the people who were following me.

Why don’t YOU try it out. Go independent, and if its not better for you, your clients and your downlines you can always go back to PFS.

But, I promise you, you won’t. Its too good on the outside!

Michael
714.280.7908
ceo.tfg@gmail.com
http://www.thomasfinancialgroup.net

Michael, “…Maybe you are making all the income you want, with the freedoms you deservce. Maybe all your downlines are supporting their familes with their PFS income. I wasn’t. And my downlines were’t. I could no long stand up on a Thursday night OPP meeting and sell the dream while I was living a nightmare. I was getting to the point that was almost envious of people that had a “good job” and were making consistent income. Bad times.”

Just because you didn’t achieve the success in Primerica that you were looking for doesn’t mean that someone else can’t either. I’m living proof of that, and countless others as well (as you know PFS doesn’t hide income levels – it’s all right there on POL). I’m very happy that you were able to find your niche. I’m happy for you that you’re making good money as an independent agent, and that’s really all that counts, right?

If you re-read my posts, I never said that PFS was any better than another business, vehicle, or system. I only said that it works. For the right person, it works really well. And anyone can BECOME the right person, if they choose to do so–you are not a victim. If Primerica didn’t work for you, then go elsewhere, but don’t discourage someone else who is excited about getting involved from doing it–you may be talking the next PFS SNSD out of getting there.

How you feel about PFS is not really relevant when someone asks you if you think that they should or shouldn’t do the business. You know, I had a Mercedes S500 for 9 months–that thing was in the shop all the time. Now, I could tell people what a crappy car Mercedes is, or I could just tell the truth–I had a bad experience with mine, but based on MB’s track record of success and lengthy history, I think you stand a pretty good shot at owning a very fine automobile. Doesn’t THAT sound like a better reaction than “Dont buy one of those pieces of crap! I had one and they suck!”

Now, a mature adult would approach Primerica the same way, right? How about saying: “You know, I had a bad experience with Primerica, but if you do your research you will find that there are many, many people who have achieved financial independence. It’s not going to be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is. You should give it a look, and if you decide to do it, make sure that you put some REAL effort into learning the business and getting great at it. You will find that there are many agents in Primerica who never make much money, but there are too many successful people in that company to lead me to believe that it doesn’t work. Instead of asking the people who didn’t make it big why they didn’t, ask the people who ARE successful how they did it? If you don’t like what you hear, then move on to something else–it’s your prerogative, right? What you should do is find out for yourself if you have what it takes, or are willing to develop what it takes, to do really well there. What have you really got to lose, anyway? By the way, I hope that it works out for you–you deserve to win!”

Doesn’t that sound better?

Just make an appointment to get all the facts.

Lots of talk.

“Big hat, no cattle”, comes to mind.

Proof is in the pudding.

Here’s what happened just today…

One of my reps (PFS equivalent of Regional Leader), got a income check for $22,000.

One of our CPAs (whom I couldn’t hire in PFS because of apparent conflict-of-interest), wrote two Hartford Variable Annuities for $600,000. Her income will be $15,600. She is entry-level.

End of story.

Wow Michael, you didn’t even TRY to rebutt any of Dave’s points just now. I’ve been following you two for a few days and I have to say that Dave seems to be the bigger man here. He never badmouthed you or your new career, and never said that what he was doing was any better than what you do. And he has been able to use REAL facts and logic to explain his success as well as your shortcomings in PFS. I didn’t see any of that from you. Kudos to you Dave, and I’m sure that you have much more success ahead of you.

I have heard of him. Nothing new to me–I always address the estate tax issue and set up my clients’ life insurance program to follow along. How about this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjir8yxPUI

i found article on internet. different view on primerica. it is http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/777477/the_pros_and_cons_of_becoming_a_primerica.html?cat=3

I agree with Dave that the link to the other web site above is full if misleading information and even is some is true, it is a small minority of PFS that would behave like that.

The problems of PFS are not those mentioned there.

The problems are what I have alluded to all along…. PFS is no longer competitive in the products category nor in the “opportunity” category.

Whatever you can do in PFS you can do better “outside”.

The other thing I will warn all of you looking into PFS about, is the “culture” of “you can do it”.

If I hear one more comment like Dave said above, about “You have to become a better person, then you’ll win.”, then I’m going to through up.

Or, “You just don’t want it bad enough. WORK HARDER. You gotta BELIEVE!”

Jesus.

That’s how they kept in for so long when I should have quit a long time ago. Don’t fall for it.

IF you try PFS and it works for you QUICKLY, then great. But if after six months, maximum a year, you don’t see any results. MOVE ON.

Trust me, financial services is not that hard. But if you are selling overpriced products, and earning dramatically below-industry-average commissions, then you better be a SUPER-STAR to make it.

It literally shocked me when I understood how much money Primerica was keeping from us agents. Truly disgusting.

That;s why I have no love for PFS anymore. They should be ashamed of themselves. They put so many unnecessary restrictions on RVPs and then paid us squat. But kept the price for the consumer very high.

Michael, Holy cow!!! Did I read this right!?!?? You said:

“The other thing I will warn all of you looking into PFS about, is the “culture” of “you can do it”.

If I hear one more comment like Dave said above, about “You have to become a better person, then you’ll win.”, then I’m going to through up.”

It’s “throw up”, by the way. Aside from that, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? Are you that naive to believe that the “you can do it” mentality is exclusive to Primerica? You ought to take a trip down to Borders and take a look at the self-help section. I’ll wager that 99% of those books have the same theme: You are great! You can do it! Don’t quit! Stay focused! Believe in yourself!

You have a lot to learn about motivating people. I can see exactly why after 17 years in Primerica you never made more than $86K: You never took the time to understand people. I guess you were absent on the days that Art Williams was speaking.

For all of you following this thread. Dave responded above exactly as I expected and is a perfect demonstration of my assertion about Primerica’s cult-like culture.

He said what most PFS leaders say… “Its can”t be the fault of the company, the system, products nor the compensation. It MUST be the YOU. You”re not motivated enough. YOU don’t BELIEVE enough” Blah, blah, blah.

Its Bull****. It’s a convenient deflection when the real problem is THEM.

More than the over-priced products this attitude is what really soured me to PFS.

Dave is right. I WASN’T making any money and neither were my people. The question was, was it ME (as Dave contends), or could it be something else?

I decided to find out.

I went independent to test the “variable”. Here”s the result and judge for yourself (pay attention Dave):

After 18 months I have broken a $100,000 base shop three times. Our team will do it again this month.

I publicize my numbers. Feel free to look here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pYt1eYCH5CNj8ji8xQdaSdg (look at cell B3).

For all of you in PFS, you know what a RVP would make with a $100k base. On the outside I make more.

As of this morning I have 103 agents in my base, which is California. And an office in Texas, Arizona and Denver.

I have 23 securities reps.

I have THREE reps that consistently earn over $20k per month. My girlfriend earned $35k last month and expects to break $43k this month.

Most part-timers who have at least one appointment a week earn over $3,000.

All this without the bull-shit “You can do it.” And “Hang in there.”

Its funny how you don”t need all that psychological mumbo-jumbo when the business is real and PEOLE ARE MAKING REAL MONEY.

So, I tested the variable and it turns out the problem wasn’t me. It was Primerica. That’s my point. That’s why I post on these forums.

For all of PFS’ers who are struggling a little bit: It’s NOT YOU! YOU DON’T NEED ANYMORE MOTIVATION, YOU DO NOT NEED YET ANOTHER CONVENTION OR BUILDERS SCHOOL. YOU ARE NOT LAZY. ITS NOT YOU.

The “problem” IS PFS.

If you are working and putting forth effort, but not having success, TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT. It’s only common-sense.

P.S. Dave, I quote Art Williams more now, and use his materials, than when I was at PFS. (Note: reach his book “Coach” VERY carefully and you’ll find Art is no fan of PFS). In fact, I use his “Pushing Up People” book extensively, and have built my entire management philosophy around it. I’ll let the people who are in my hierarchy judge whether I am a good leader or not. Not you.

Notice: this is getting tiresome for me! Debating on the Internet is always a fruitless endeavour! It’s actually easy in person – for example, this evening I am meeting with a top producer in Hector LaMarque’s base shop. So, I’ll say the same here as I will tell him.

The only three issues that are really important are:

-the NATURE of the products: how they work, the benefits and features to the client.
-the COST of the products to the client.
-the INCOME to the Reps. And all tertiary issues, such as overrides, bonuses, ownership etc.

Everything else is fluff to disguise the above.

Hey wait a gosh darn minute Micheal. I’m learning some things from you. Keep posting. There’s no information like free information.

P.S. I read “Coach”, and Sandy Weill’s book. Primerica was bought for distribution. Citigroup just wanted the vast amount of Reps. what’s amazing is how different the stories are told in both books. Art Williams was not a captive owner.

BMP,

PFS has a very effective marketing program by selling to friends and family. Each person is squeezed for names when they join. You were subjected to that too. That is why they are all over the place and why you say that they got to you.

The question is what does that marketing plan deliver?
Does it deliver the best for you bar none or just a chance it may be better than the last but not the best never the less?
The short answer is: Limited results.
You think you are getting experience there but is it experience when you are not allowed to learn about better products outside of their domain?
Did they train you on comparing Disability Income products?
Indexed/Fixed annuities?
Taxation reduction?
You see they can say anything they want and call it ‘training’ and because you have never seen real training you might be inclined to believe it.
So you see that also is: Limited experience.
What should concern you the most is that when you are forced to work within their dictated realm you do not learn to be OBJECTIVE and that is very important.
Just take a look at how many of them know their product is not that good and still sell it.
In your case no one ever offered you what they didn’t have.
Did anyone tell you how to save for retirement while avoiding the risks common to mutual funds?
Fluctuation, taxation, estate planning, probate avoidance etc?
What guarantee did that fund give you?
Now I am not saying the purchase was wrong but I am saying no one told you that you had other options that THEY DO NOT SELL. Because of this you think you are happy when in fact you lack information that could have changed that outlook.

XRL

XRL……my question to you is this…..if you are sooooo successful at what you are doing, why do you have so much time to post these long essays about how much you hate Primerica? By the way, your posts are full of bad grammar and words that are spelled wrong. You don’t seem so educated to me. Maybe you aren’t that busy because you are a nasty person. Most suits like you are nasty people, that’s why folks don’t want to deal with you. I’m not brainwashed, I just want to learn the business with a LEGITIMATE and LEGAL company that has some very nice people who have taken the time to show me.I personally have not been pressured or harassed to do anything. You are full of crap and bitterness….find something better to be so nasty about.

Ok, lets “talk turkey”.

1) Here are MY production numbers (I gave the link above). http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pYt1eYCH5CNj8ji8xQdaSdg

Cell B3 is the TOTAL production of my agency (PFS calls this a “Base Shop”). My average override (ie, spread) is 20%. Obviously, if I write the business myself, the income is much, much higher. These numbers do NOT include bonuses.

There are plenty of people who do not make money. Some make NO money. If you don’t work here, you’ll make the same as you would if you don’t work at PFS.

HOWEVER, if you DO work in the independent market, you will earn SUBSTANTIALLY MORE than at PFS. THAT’s the difference.

Let’s see if Dave will respond with HIS numbers.

—————————

2) Bonuses. With the broker/dealer I use, bonuses are:
-Paid monthly. PFS’ are also paid monthly.
-Paid on ALL products (life, securities, loans, living trusts). PFS are only paid on life insurance (with a cap!). There is a small bonus on loans.
-There are NO caps. PFS’ life bonus is capped at $1,500 ALP (annualized life premium). And that’s not the whole story. Most of the time they combine husband and wife on one policy and that combined about is capped at $1,500 (not $3,000). If I write a $5,000 app, I get $5,000 production credit, bonus credit, contest credit etc. There is no cap on loan bonuses. PFS, I think, are capped at $600,000 per loan. Correct me if I am wrong.

————————-

3) Commissions. Here is my commission calculator. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pYt1eYCH5CNhKd4xMQNAQMg
This is a Google Spreadsheet (like above). I have “opened it up” for all to use and play with. PLEASE DON’T BREAK IT! Thanks. Just change the RED cell on each sheet and the tables will re-calculate automatically.

The life commission are the least interesting, I think. Yet, it is was PFS talks most about. They are fighting a war that is long gone. The horse is dead, stop beating it. We all get it, term is best for most people. Anyway, we do some insurance (all term), so let’s go ahead and compare. The commission you see are reflecting Banner Life (other carriers differ, but not much). Here are a few points:

-We get paid upfront for an entire year, not 9 months as PFS does.
-We do the app online, ask the client 8 questions, and we’re DONE. Banner does EVERYTHING else. They call the client directly and ask the full battery of questions, order medical, get the APS etc. I don’t even have to meet with the client. 90% we do it over the phone. I can even enter the info on my web browser on my blackberry.
-My understanding is that PFS still uses the outdated Palm platform (which means Reps need to buy it), they have to ask ALL the questions themselves, upload it to their computer when they get home, then upload it again to POL.
-They only get 9 months upfront, and don’t get months 10, 11, 12 until that time.
-Below RVP reps (RVPs are branch office managers), do not qualify for bonuses.
-Only $1,500 per policy, per family, counts towards the bonuses (which only RVPs get).

-Pre-Paid legal. I didn’t add pre-paid legal to the spreadsheet, but when marketing that product you get the “real” commission, which is almost DOUBLE that of the PFS equivalent called Primerica Legal Protection.

-Loans. Loans are capped $600,000, but I could be wrong. I can’t remember the commissions, maybe the PFS’ers reading this thread can enlighten us.
If you look on the spreadsheet, you’ll that you must enter the loan amount and then the “net points”. It depends what type of loan, and what lender (I can market any lender in the country, including Citibank). But, our average ours is about 2.5%. An entry level Rep is at 30% of that resulting number, and it goes up to 62% for an RVP (using Primerica’s language, here). Also, 5% goes to a bonus pool.
I can also do any size loan, and any type.

-Securities. This is the best. Primerica’s top contract is 62%. I have an 80%. A number of my guys have 75%. These examples, of course, are just for me and my agency. However, a friend of mine who works for a major B/D has a 90% contract. It just shows you what is possible.
Also, in my Agency, a rep can get promoted to 50% with NO recruiting, just production (which is based upon 12-month rolling GDC).
Here are some things that even many PFS’ers don’t know….

-The variable annuity commission are even lower than they think. What is “hidden” from the salesforce is that the GDC (PFS calls it Dealer Re allowance), is LESS on variable annuities than mutual funds?!?! So, an RVP at 62% is not “really” at 62% when it comes to VAs!

Example, I just closed a $315,000 variable annuity (I 1035-exchanged-it from a Primerica PrimElite II). It has a bonus of 5%, so the client got $18,500 credited to her account the very next day! Not bad! Compete with that! Anyway, when doing this, the GDC goes from 7% to 6.5%. So, if you type in $315,000 in the red box (cell A1), then look down at cell C30 the GDC is $22,050. This amount counts toward bonuses, promotions, contests etc. NO CAPS. My commission is $17,640. A Primerica RVP would have earned $10,710. $7,000 difference. Same work. And, my product gave the client a $18,500 bonus!

The above is not totally accurate because PFS variable annuities have breakpoints. The more revenue you bring into the B/D the LESS they pay you (should be the opposite). I don’t know what the breakpoints are (they instituted them after I left), but I’m sure by $300k invested, you already passed one of the breakpoints, so the commission would be even LESS than $10,710.

In fact, why doesn’t Dave do the math and tell us what a PrimElite IV for $315,000 would pay him. I would be very interested.

On top of all that, 5% of the GDC goes into the bonus pool, which ALL reps are eligible for. As far as I know, PFS securities still does not have bonuses on securities.

A few more important notes when looking at the PFS “business opportunity”:

-I understand that Primerica still requires a “give-up” when getting promoted to RVP (branch office manager). In other words, in addition to having to recruit a boat-load of people, and doing term insurance production (capped at $1,500 per family), not being allowed to use other products as qualifying production, your upline TAKES YOUR BEST LEG, IN SOME CASES YOUR TWO BEST LEGS!

The ENTIRE leg of producers.

The BEST leg(s).

Unbelievable. People actually buy into this.

-Ownership. It is very difficult to achieve at PFS. I never achieved it. I wonder if Dave has it. If you tell us your full name and hierarchy, I can find out. I have a buddy look you up on POL. Anyway, I have ownership, and every licensed Rep in my office has it from day-one. They can sell their code number, or pass it one to family. Day-one.

-Can’t incorporate. If you can’t set YOUR business up as corp or at least an LLC, then is it really a “business”?

This is usually the second question I ask a Primerica (see the first question in my previous post). “So, you own your own business, right? Hmmmm, are you set up as an S Corp or C Corp?” Watch their eyes glaze over.

Note: and 1099 independent contractor is NOT a business owner. The company can pull the plug on you ANYTIME. It has happened countless time in PFs over the years. Though the taxes benefits as a 1099 are better than W2, an S Corp is much, much better in my opinion. (note: I am not a tax advisor, and don’t portray my self to be.) Oh, I am set up as an S Corp.

-Outside business. Primerica is VERY strict on outside business. Here is what I got in hot water for at PFS when I was an RVP:
-Joining Toastmasters.
Joining SendOutCards (an online greeting card service).
-Joining BNI (Business Networking International. A networking group). Though I see some PFS doing “under the radar”. In fact, I found one of my top reps this way! She was in PFS and doing BNI. I meet her. Showed her the light. She made $27,000 two months ago.

One of my branch offices in Texas is a guy who was an RVP in PFS, left, and opened a P&C agency. I recruited him to my company, and now he can market every product he did at PFS, and KEEP his P&C agency! Last night he closed over $600,000 in variable annuities. He is at 75%. PFS lost this top producer because they wouldn’t let him do what he loved (car/home/disability/health insurance).

———

Anyway, enjoy the spreadshseets. I’ll keep them “live” for about a week.

Also, I realize that every B/D is different, and that PFS may be slightly different from what I described above. I am posting what I know to be true from my experiences and from talking with my few friends left at PFS. If anything above is incorrect, PLEASE let me know, but stick to facts, figures and numbers.

Go ahead, sell me on PFS. Show me with MATH how it’s better to pour my life into PFS instead what I have listed above.

disclaimer: all of my above posts are for discussion purposes in comparing business opportunities. NOT client and product solicitations.

Honest reply to all you folks who hopefully read through this whole blunder. This will probably rub people the wrong way but the “actual truth” hurts i guess.

Atleast, when the author of this initial review claims a disclaimer of not completely knowing what’s going on…he’s honest there but he should completely put that first and in BOLD PRINT.

1. The money business is the most highly regulated industry on earth. That said…there’s no company in the “regulated” USA who would last 31 years in business if they had bad/illegal/take advantage of consumers type business practices. Primerica has been around for 31 years. Enough said….lay your worries to rest on the issue. IT’S DONE!!

2. For you, “Oh my gosh, he’s making money off this person and that one!” type of people out there (love the internet)….take a really good unbias look at how ALL FINANCIAL SERVICES companies work. Let’s use Edward Jones for example (not picking on them…just using them). Guess what…you have brokers (people who make money commissions off anyone else who works out of his office). REAL ESTATE IS THE SAME THING.

Please….for goodness sakes…get off this horse now that you actually KNOW better.

3. Primerica is not for everyone. It’s FOR the individual who is MOTIVATED to get off his butt and change his life for the better by using a vehicle that provides Federal/State Professional Licenses to his disposal. Wanna know why some people don’t make it? It’s easy. People do what they want. Some choose to stay home and watch tv, some choose to be scared on not pick up the phone and call to CREATE BUSINESS by setting appointments. Whatever it is….i don’t care because i personally….AM MOTIVATED. That’s who primerica is for. Still doubt? Ask a fat person why they’re still fat and then come talk to me. They know better, they know they’ll feel and live better if they just took care of their weight issue….but guess what. He’s doing what he wants to do…i dont care why…regardless, it’s HIS CHOICE. More power to them.

Last one:
4. Primerica offices are all run independently. Unfortunately, this leaves room for bad training, bad attitudes and sometimes ethical challenges which every business/industry has. It’s human nature and life…please get over this one as well. To be honest, Primerica as a whole and under the right training really does put the consumer first. Main example is this: I’ve replaced whole life products for a family where their ACTUAL BROTHER was the insurance guy that sold them their expensive/retirement stealing insurance policy….moved them over to TERM INSURANCE which was cheaper for them and yes, the difference saved and other monies they had was invested according to their risk tolerances in proper investment vehicles. Sure there’s other cheaper term out there…THIS SO CALLED BROTHER COULD HAVE OFFERED HIS OWN FAMILY MEMBERS THAT….but guess what? He didn’t. HE CHOSE to make a higher commission of his own family…instead of doing the best possible practical thing for them….so you wonder why go with Primerica?

If that doesn’t convince you of what is truly happening out there…regardless of your own (if true) random unfortunate experience with Primerica Financial Services….

THEN TO BE HONEST….WHO THE F*** CARES….I’M GONNA GO CONTINUE TO HELP PEOPLE AND THAT’S ENOUGH FOR ME.

ps-yes i spent my time reading this and posting this long little message. Get over it if it strikes you wrongly…it’s the internet.

Honest reply to all you folks who hopefully read through this whole blunder. This will probably rub people the wrong way but the “actual truth” hurts i guess.

Atleast, when the author of this initial review claims a disclaimer of not completely knowing what’s going on…he’s honest there but he should completely put that first and in BOLD PRINT.

1. The money business is the most highly regulated industry on earth. That said…there’s no company in the “regulated” USA who would last 31 years in business if they had bad/illegal/take advantage of consumers type business practices. No person in Primerica gets paid to recruit…only to sell products. Next, Primerica has been around for 31 years. Enough said….lay your worries to rest on the issue. IT’S DONE!!

2. For you, “Oh my gosh, he’s making money off this person and that one!” type of people out there (love the internet)….take a really good unbias look at how ALL FINANCIAL SERVICES companies work. Let’s use Edward Jones for example (not picking on them…just using them). Guess what…you have brokers (people who make money commissions off anyone else who works out of his office). Not to mention…ask any Ed Jones broker how long it took him to become a broker…pretty much a LONG LONG RETARDED LONG TIME. REAL ESTATE IS THE SAME THING.

Please….for goodness sakes…get off this horse now that you actually KNOW better.

3. Primerica is not for everyone. It’s FOR the individual who is MOTIVATED to get off his butt and change his life for the better by using a vehicle that provides Federal/State Professional Licenses at his disposal. Wanna know why some people don’t make it? It’s easy. People do what they want. Some choose to stay home and watch tv, some choose to be scared on not pick up the phone and call to CREATE BUSINESS by setting appointments. Whatever it is….i don’t care because i personally….AM MOTIVATED. That’s who primerica is for. Still doubt? Ask a fat person why they’re still fat and then come talk to me. They know better, they know they’ll feel and live better if they just took care of their weight issue….but guess what. He’s doing what he wants to do…i dont care why…regardless, it’s HIS CHOICE. More power to them.

Last one:
4. Primerica offices are all run independently. Unfortunately, this leaves room for bad training, bad attitudes and sometimes ethical challenges which every business/industry has. It’s human nature and life…please get over this one as well. To be honest, Primerica as a whole and under the right training really does put the consumer first. Main example is this: I’ve replaced whole life products for a family where their ACTUAL BROTHER was the insurance guy that sold them their expensive/retirement stealing insurance policy….moved them over to TERM INSURANCE which was cheaper for them and yes, the difference saved and other monies they had was invested according to their risk tolerances in proper investment vehicles. (you Dave Ramsey nuts out there…guess what. Almost 90% of what he tells folks to do…WOW, PRIMERICA has been advising folks to do for 31 years!!!!) Sure there’s other cheaper term out there…THIS SO CALLED BROTHER COULD HAVE OFFERED HIS OWN FAMILY MEMBERS THAT….but guess what? He didn’t. HE CHOSE to make a higher commission off his own family…instead of doing the best possible practical thing for them….so you wonder why go with Primerica? IF the competition won’t even do the right thing for their own flesh and blood…trust me, there’s a market out there.

If that doesn’t convince you of what is truly happening out there…regardless of your own (if true) random unfortunate experience with Primerica Financial Services….

THEN TO BE HONEST….WHO THE F*** CARES….I’M GONNA GO CONTINUE TO HELP PEOPLE AND THAT’S ENOUGH FOR ME.

ps-yes i spent my time reading this and posting this long little message. Get over it if it strikes you wrongly…it’s the internet.

mmm… forgot to say that about $30K of those purchases was within the last three years.

I found this thread when I googled “considering Primerica” as I am considering joining up. Now that I’ve actually read the rest of the thread, and not just the parts where people slam their investment vehicles, I have to comment on a couple of other things…

Maybe their term insurance is expensive – for term. Nobody ever talked about term before Primerica. They should get paid for the time they invest in educating consumers. It’s like buying local – you pay more for maybe the same thing you’d get at the big box store, but the service is where you find the value.

I have a family member who has been in the business since it was ALW. We live in a roughly 30000 person market, and you know what? If you can’t hit 100K easily in southern California – bad news. It’s you.

Oh – and Mensa? LOL The first thing they ought to teach members is not to ‘brag’ about it. Let your comments stand for themselves, and maybe someone will say “Holy s*** – this guy’s smart”. If you have to tell them up front “Holy s*** – I’m smart” just so they’ll notice, well, maybe not so much then, eh? LOL

Have a great day, eh?

There’s also the part about massive recruiting. The PFS system is designed for massive recruiting. If he is making that amount (900K) from personal production I would hate to see what he can do on the outside. Yet I know that’s not the case. Think about it why payout higher commissions to green people when for one they have no reference to gage compensation with. Then there’s the fact the over rides have to be paid.

I don’t think anyone says that people can’t make any money at PFS the issue is the culture and the notion that it’s a client first program. It’s not. It’s a we can come into a home and leave a person better off than before we came type of program. Just as the PFS agents are talking about replacement of Cash value products, the same thing can be said for their Term product. Once an agent understands why they are in the home that’s when you can make the big bucks. If an PFS agent is really at PFS to help people i strongly suggest you don’t read message boards, because sooner or later your going to hear things and see things at trainings and you won’t be able to look in the mirror.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Primerica agents do anything wrong or unethical, it’s just that when you hear a speaker say that you are the only company doing what’s right or you have no competition something you may have read will stick in your craw and then the leaving process will begin. You will start thinking of what you sold your family and friends.

Let me just say I myself didn’t really see or understand the system while at Primerica. It’s the same with many MLM companies. Take a product and increase the price to pay the field force and give the company a profit and attack the warm market. Do you guys ever wonder why the guarantees on some products may not be a full guarantee? You see the way to make big money at PFS is to just recruit, recruit, recruit. Keep people coming and going. Hit that recruits warm market because they are probably going to quit anyway.
The system is genius…

Something people are glossing over is the fact that Citigroup has PFS on the market. Other companies are in direct competitition for new green agents. I am having people contact me and wanting to compare what I can offer compard to what Primerica can offer them. Given the facts and allowing people to make their own decision I have yet to have anyone choose Primerica. I know something like that can’t be verified, but that’s what is going on.

I know people in Primerica and I had one person tell me I won’t consider anything else. That’s where he wants to stake his claim. I can respect that and if I run into one of his clients he will lose. That’s just the way it is. So we can debate all day and all night, but it’s a new day and Primerica will have to change some things or lose agents. That’s just my opinion from being inside Primerica and being outside Primerica. Today someone can be making 900K in Primerica, but if they lose a good producer things can change over night.

Like I tell all the people who contact me, don’t take my word for anything. Do some research. Compare side by side. Products and the contract. Once people understand the issue of a not having to deal with a noncompete and having immediate ownership then it’s a done deal.

So keep getting people licensed and getting them trained on the basics. Your just building for someone else. Hey but what do I know.

James, you are spot-on. I agree with your entire post.

This comment is so true: “So keep getting people licensed and getting them trained on the basics. Your just building for someone else.”

If you are a mass-recruiter; someone who can “move the masses” and motivate large groups of people and build a hierarchy of 100’s of people, then Primerica is for you.

If, on the other hand, you want to be a professional financial representative first, and then hire quality people and train them properly in order to build a solid, reputable financial services agency, look elsewhere.

@James: You in general basically said Primerica must be MLM in all it’s glory b/c it’s massively recruiting. That’s just business man. More power to the concept and if you think Primerica invented a business model that massively recruits then you’re sourly mistaken. Back in the 1960’s, guess what? State Farm offered a part time opportunity to agents? PFS is a young company…looking to expand massively and branch out it’s market. Let’s talk about current companies. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re quite resourceful but you may have not come across certain particular concepts and realities in your business savvy. I’ll start with Cell phone companies (cingular and sprint—i know for a fact they run this way.) Guess what they do? Hire lots of people, get them to call all of their warm market and offer them cell phone discount and discounted service plans. Once some time has gone by, they take a look…see who’s still work past the point of their warm market and those that aren’t…are fired. Then they go out and rehire a ton of people and get in their warm market….etc etc. Sound familiar? Now, let’s pick Dell. 6 years ago…on their first massive layoff they hired 25% of that work force back and since then have created a system where every two weeks they have hundreds, weed them out and then two weeks later hire hundreds….and so on and so on. Wanna know something beautiful and cost effective? When Dell laid off that first crop of folks….they only did it b/c it’s what was happening to alot of other companies. Dell saw this gained huge funds back into their bottom line, so they took it upon themselves to just lay people off as well…not to save their bottom line like other companies “needed” to….they did it cuz bottom line was all they saw and it was corporately effective.

Now, I know you’re not saying that you could take down someone who’s developed a $900,000 a year earner by stealing a little business from him? By the time that system has been placed it would take years of TONS of people to quit working and feeding their families for that type of business to turn backwards. Now if you went after (and you made it your mission to) you could certainly put a dent in any industry—PFS has for the last 31 years. Art Williams proved to you its possible…so I look forward to your own company taking on one of the biggest industries in the world and proving that one man CAN make a difference…one day at a time and a lot of years later. You sir give yourself too good of a pat on the back on that one though…you know it’s true don’t even bother lol.

More power to Citi putting PFS on the market…the leadership is different and goals have been restructured…noone knows yet what’s gonna happen but by no means would that EVER mean PFS is out of the picture. As long as you sir do the right thing for someone and not take advantage of them, then by all means keep doing what you’re doing. Just don’t put retarded stuff on the internet and shoot darts in the dark hoping your internet slander will really make a difference cuz you just seem like a whole life agent trying to stay above water.

@Michael Thomas. I’m hurt, you’re telling people to stay away from Primerica? Hell it’s how you got started…even if you felt you needed to venture out and try a different system? If it was good enough for you to get started (I’m not trying to slander you, even you’ll admit you’d work under a different system better…and proved it) why wouldn’t it be good enough for someone else? You actually answered why PFS didn’t work for you and i appreciate you did b/c with your layout of events…there could be some validity to your conclusions. I’ll tell you what though…PFS didn’t work for you b/c you didn’t really have PFS. You were under a system of RVP’s who trained horribly wrong and didn’t do crap for themselves either. That’s not a good system? People who succeed at PFS are people who train right, work right and success follows. It’s a turnkey system…which unfortunately some people are too smart for. I’m not saying it’s good for the retarded masses, i’m saying plain and simple…I’m sorry your experience is lame b/c right now you’ve proved you had it in you all along. You just didn’t have the support which could have kept you and pushed you over the fence into success land and then who knows. But it’s happened how it’s happened and cool. I just hope underneath all that success and “go past PFS…there’s more and better!” i hope you realize, truth be told…PFS could have worked for you even without any proper training. You’re not only one with pathetic leadership…there have been a few who’ve succeeded at PFS even with horrible leadership at first (Lisa Jones, Chris Howard, Shane Rudman, etc) but you also didn’t quit cuz you atleast used whatever (might be bitterness, who knows?) to make something of yourself in the same field.
—–

Now for my real side to come out

I quote you Michael Thomas:James, you are spot-on. I agree with your entire post.

This comment is so true: “So keep getting people licensed and getting them trained on the basics. Your just building for someone else.”
——–

Um, he’s not spot on…he’s one of those smart people i was talking about. Your post atleast had more….something good about it…don’t correlate yourself with that dude. He’s entirely wrong. If you got to this point…i can’t see how you’d disagree unless you’re two vultures huddling up together…just preaching same values and you find that in common lol. (or this is the internet—it could be you…smart person pretending to be two by creating internet controversy..OMG!! lol) And as for the keep getting people licensed and blah blah. I know 3 people personally who have made over $100k more than once a year…and don’t really recruit. Personally i’d never build a business that way (and neither would you b/c you obvoiusly make overrides at your own establishment…so please don’t even bother retorting back!) b/c if you never recruit and build people up to their own success…YOU DON’T HAVE A BUSINESS–YOU’RE IN PERSONAL SALES. And i don’t care who you are…you’ll one day be a tired old salesperson and unless you saved like a scrooge…you’ll be broke cuz you never developed a passive business income.

Atleast we agree PFS isn’t for everyone. We had quitters on my football team too, HS and College but it’s how the story goes. You gotta be willing to be different. Good luck to you internet savvy gurus and keep bashing PFS…it looks good on you. Primerican out!

Well we revert to thinking people who say anything against the Primerica concepts or business model are exclusive whole life producers again. I’ve heard it many times.

I’m saying Primerica looks basically like a MLM because of how the commission structure pays out compare to other companies. From what I remember
compare your compensation below RVP to what you
can get outside PFS for genworth LTC. Look at
compensation of what you get with your Legal
Protection Plan compared to if you were an associate
with Prepaid Legal directly. Look at comparable term Plans length of guarantees against what you can offer
at PFS. I don’t know if it’s still true, but look at
having to pay for company product brochures compared to outside carriers providing them free..The money to pay all the different levels and price a product for people to buy has many different factors.

If we look at MLM companies we see that in many cases the same or comparable product can be had for a cheaper price at Wal-Mart or some other store. Yes we know the product may have some special formula from the high mountains of the moon, but it’s still just a product that has an inflated cost to pay the field force and make the company a profit.

When I was at PFS we always heard recruits=sales. Back in the ALW days to me it was a crusade and Art Williams
was about doing what’s right for the consumer. Back then it was his company and he could contract with any company he wanted to to offer the best products he could find. Today Primerica is totally different. It’s not owned by an individual. Today it’s a different ball game. Read the book “Coach”. Art himself says he wish he never sold A.L. Williams. People seem to think Citigroup bought PFS for some reason other than distribution. Read Sandy Weill’s book “Tearing Down The Walls”.

As for the 900K earner we know that income does come from production of a team of agents. Why is it PFS is supposedly just staying at 100,000 agents all these years? When PFS is sold I would expect a name change.
The word is getting out about Primerica and when you read message boards on the internet it’s not always as favorable as people try to make it seem. When posters make statements about some of the products or part of the agent agreement why are there never any reason as to why or how it benefits the agent who is an independent contractor?

Yes I will agree the people who were contacted because of a resume online will say Primerica is a scam. We who have left PFS for other business interest never say Primerica is a scam we just are sharing what we have learned from being inside Primerica and outside Primerica be it business model or what’s available in the industry.

Tell me as an independent contractor (1099 not W-2)why is it to your benefit to have a noncompete clause in your associate agreement? As an independent contractor why is it to your benefit to have to qualifications for ownership? Considering you want what’s best for your clients why are limited guaranteed products a better consideration than a fully guaranteed product? As an independent contractor why is it a good idea to have to give up a leg(s) to advance to a higher commission level? Why is the starting commission level 25% for new agents?

Yes it is business..Yet what is the great benefit of being with PFS if you can do the same things you are currently doing outside of PFS and more and have immediate ownership, Advance from personal production if you so choose, Not have a requirment to give up any legs, Not have any restrictions on who you can hire for your team, Not have any full-time or office requirements and possible higher commission levels. What are the benefits of what PFS can offer compared to what can be had outside of PFS?

Here’s something to consider. Many of the PFS agents don’t know the industry outside of PFS. The agents own their own license. If they currently do not have a huge team or any real ties to PFS, they could step outside PFS still recruit a team and just test the independent waters. If they don’t like it they can always just go back. It’s just a small fee to go back to PFS. Then considering they will be bringing along a already licensed team from what they built on the outside they can ask for a higher commission level from the recruiting RVP. At one time I don’t know if it’s still true, but RVP’s didn’t have to start everyone at the beginning levels.

As for the statement about people who got started in Primerica well Primerica still made money off of our production so it’s a wash. What opened my eyes to that issue was the book,”Who moved My Cheese”..I know this is old hat, but it was tough for me to leave Primerica. I had the feeling I was letting down all the people who helped me through my time there. Especially my RVP. Well all that thinking changed when I put in my resigination papers. It was the letter from the legal council. It basically read Thank you for your time at PFS. Stay aways from the clients you went out and got for us for a time of 2 years and send us back all brochures and and other documents oh yes thans for the recruits.

That my friends is when I understood that this was a business. I fought the fight on message boards as you are doing. I thought cash value was evil for EVERYONE..
I understood why they didn’t care if I quit or stayed. I gave Primerica clients and gave my RVP recruits, so if you look at the big picture I needed them more than they needed me. That’s business and welcome to the business world. So now when I see people posting as I used to and from their post I can see they have no clue about what opportunities they may be leting pass them by becuse of blind loyalty I will plant a seed. People did it for me and I am grateful.

You can run with PFS if that’s the company for you, but if want to get big. Recruit massive amounts of people. That way you will get some recruits and sales.
If you can help a potential client great, but do the presentation and get referrals. Don’t worry about industry education. Just concentrate on Primerica products and the system. think next, next, next. Let me say it one more time. STAY AWAY FROM MESSAGE BOARDS.

One day your going to sit across a client and you know they have limited funds and they need a good amount of coverage and they will look you in the eyes and with total trust in you ask if that’s all the coverage they can get with the money they have? You will answer yes, but will you finish it with “That’s all I can offer, but you may be able to get more coverage with another company for the same amount of money” or you may be in competition for a recruit. It’s going to happen and then the next morning when you looking in the mirror and thinking about the commission you just made and then remembering why you came into the busines to help people the leaving process will start again..Why, because in this instance the client may be a family member. It’s not so much the products. It’s not so much the contract. The big issue for me was the “Why”, I was at PFS. My “why” became clouded. I joined PFS to help people expose the evils of Cash Value and to educate people so they wouldn’t retire broke. I joined PFS for the business opportunity. That was my “why”.
I knew nothing about the insurance or banking industry.
the more questions I asked the more I researched and learned. My business was me. Primerica’s business is Primerica. Thaey think as to what’s in their best interest and so should I. I had to leave. That was the right decision for me.

As for me currently i’m loyal to my business and not any company. There are so many different products and markets to market in with the same license(s) the agents at PFS have many just don’t know it. As always you are independent contractors and you have the right to run YOUR business as you see fit. So call me a Whole lifer if you must. If that’s the best product for a clients situation that’s the product i’m going to offer. Yes term is a great product, but also remember industry wide it only goes to claim 2-3% of the time and everyone is guaranteed to die. There’s two constants in life Death and taxes…Some people do need coverage until death. It may be a financial situation or an economic situation. The product must fit the need. Sorry for the long post. PFS people have at me. Just understand in most instances (nothings 100%) I can replace your program, but you can’t replace mine. To me the only reason your client has your program is because you got there first.
That’s the way to make the big bucks at PFS, get there first because in many times in your target market no one else has talked to the client. Times are changing. People can search the internet for information now.

Recruit, recruit, recruit……Keep throwing it against the wall and keep what sticks. Yes PFS is a feel good company, but this is big business.. In the beginning A.L. Williams was the in your face company due to the industry, well now PFS is on the defensive due to the competition for new agents. Primerica is not a scam company. It’s just the market and the industry has evolved. They are not the only game in town.

Hello All,

I want to thank all of you for contributing to this highly informative blog!

Special thanks go out to Michael and some of the other former PFS reps who have been able to contribute fairly substantive arguments for their positions. It isn’t hard to find those who are ill-content with PFS on the internet, but it is generally much more difficult to find such folks who can back up their positions with a coherent, articulate and substantive analyses to support their position.

I was introduced to Primerica through my in-laws and by way of an RVP. I was somewhat intrigued by what was presented to me but was cautious about the opportunity. Shortly after my introduction to the company my wife decided to join. In order to help my wife “fast-track” I became one of her first two hires but at the time I still wasn’t overly enthused about the opportunity.

It wasn’t until December of 2007, when I became disenfranchised with work, that I began to embrace the Primerica opportunity and as such began to attend regular meetings and trainings. My active involvement encouraged my wife, who had become idle, and we began to host meetings at our home. In January 2008 I became Life Licensed and began to actively build the business. I was quickly promoted and found myself at the top of the state leader board in just about every category.

I was enjoying what I was doing and was finding some success and therefore decided to quit my job in February; the money I was making with PFS justified this move.

We just had a competition period end for an all expenses paid trip to San Francisco and I was able to qualify top 20 in my category.

All this being said, somewhere in the back of my mind I have always questioned PFS and whether or not I am doing the best I possibly can for my clients. I don’t want to simply do better, I want to do the best possible for my clients and that is why this thought-provoking blog has been so beneficial for me.

I would like to ask the former PFSers who are taking part in this discussion a few questions (and for those who are involved with PFS like Dave you can certainly feel free to chime in as well):

1)Primerica claims to have been named the “king of term” by consumer reports (a fact that I was never able to verify). There has been considerable discussion of life insurance on this blog and how Primerica’s product isn’t competitive do to its price.

Certainly if all other things are equal price is very important, but the contention that PFS makes is that the quality of its term product is superior to anyone elses.
Reasons that I have been given and that make sense on face value for the higher value of a Primerica policy are that there are very few to no exemptions, exclusions, hidden clauses etc. My RVP says that Primerica’s policy is, “you pay, you die, we pay” meaning that Primerica almost always pays out regardless of the cause of death (obviously there are a few exlusions namely death by suicide within the first two years of the policy).
Is it true that Primerica’s policies are much more straight forward and that they have a much better pay-out rate than other insurance companies. If what Primerica claims is true in this case than I think a Primerica policy would be more beneficial because you would have peace of mind knowing that you fully understand your policy and that your family will receive the death benefit regardless.
(You see I haven’t been able to verify the truthfulness of this type of claim, perhaps it is an outmoded justification of an uncompetitively priced produt).

I can apprceciate quality over cost. If I wanted to save some money I would buy all of my consumer products from Wal-Mart though I would undoubtedly be sacrificing quality. Of course the addage goes: “you get what you pay for” but is that the case in this debate? In other words do other carriers offer a comprable product for less money.

2)Primerica’s approach to personal finance is comprehensive: reps sit with clients, gather the necessary information to complete an FNA, print a report that outlines each area of the client’s finances and then using plane language makes recommendations to the client about a path forward. Obviously the tools in a PFS rep’s belt include insurances (home, auto, life, long-term care), emergency funds, debt consolidation (debt-stacking, GOOD Loans, SMART Loans), mortgages and investments (namely mutual funds and variable annuities).

The first goal of a PFS rep is to isolate areas where money can be freed up (perhaps through budgeting or the use of a SMART loan, or even by replacing an innapropriate permanent policy for a less expensive term one) and then show the client how to reallocate that freed up money in order to achieve their retirement goals
Do other opportunities, such as the one that you are involved in Michael use the same comprehensive approach with clients?

3)A big attraction to Primerica for clients and reps is that it gives it clients and reps access to high yielding emergency fund accounts and investment grade vehicles for as little as $25/month making it theoretically possible for anyone to invest regardless of their economic situation. I realize that such a scenario isn’t lucrative for a rep, particularly if that rep doesn’t have a boat load of reps that he is overriding doing the same thing. However, this does seem like the “right” thing to do. Ideally I would like to be able to help everyone regardless of their situation and at least on face-value it seems like Primerica allows me to do that.
Again, is this unique to Primerica?

Michael, you made specific reference to the commissions earned on variable annuities where you currently are…. do you do a lot of VA business?
What are your commissions like on some of the other products that you offer?

BTW when you talked about not receiving full production credit for business written it really resonated with me particularly with regards to life volume. In the final month of competition for the San Francisco trip I wrote a policy that had an AP (annualized premium of over $4,000, but I only received credit for $1,500). My Dad who is the top Financial Advisor for one of the largest banks in the North East thought that was bizarre especially since I only got paid 75% of my commission level on 1500 up front. To be completely honest your current situation sounds much better (full production credit (100%) and 100% up-front commission).

Lastly (and sorry for the incredible length hopefully you could manage to make it to the end) Did I understand you Michael, that the core principles and philosophies that Primerica operates on, with regards to becoming properly protected, debt free and financially independent, are essentially correct and that the main problem with PFS is their limited and more costly product range?

Thanks very much for the time and help! I am simply searching for the truth!

Here’s something I had no clue about until I left Primerica. In some states you can take an application from a client and send in the agent appointment paperwork along with the application. There’s no need to get preappointed with some carriers before you send in business. Also if you have a case where there may be an issue of a client possibly being rated you can have the ability to shop the case with different companies to see who can give the most competitive price.

Many different companies do different levels of underwriting, that’s also a consideration when it comes to policy pricing. Swab vs physical/blood work
think about it..

The way I see it Art Williams started something great, but as things change people have came along and just improved some of the concepts and taken the business model to a whole different level.

Something many PFS agents just may not understand. The products you have to offer are designed so the company can make a profit and to also be able to compensate the field force through the different levels. No matter the company or product there’s only so much money to go around.

I think LIMRA does a ranking on term sales. You can also go to http://www.iii.org for some great industry infomration http://www.iii.org/media/facts/statsbyissue/life/

PFS isn’t the King of term… I think in 2007 AIG was the number 1 seller of term life in the US.. Something to remember also industry wide I have heard that Term claims are running only about 2-3%..

For the quote “You pay you die” I remember first hearing that come from Ginny Carter. She was talking about the simplicity of Term. Something else to consider for your clients is this. The Life/Senior Settlement market is growing. That’s where the advantage of being able to convert to a perm. product may come into play. A Term product can convert which could lock in a coverage and premium for the life of the policy, which could make it look more favorable to a buyer.

One more thing to consider is an agent with a Life license can offer Fixed/Indexed annuities outside of PFS. (I could be wrong, but I haven’t heard of PFS offering Fixed/Indexed products.)

Hi Adam,

You can reach me at mptpro@gmail.com

BTW, as a comparision of my days at PFS, and at the risk of sounding bragadocious, check this out…

Not 5 minutes before responding to Adam’s post above, I got a text message from one of my reps, she closed a VA for $16,100 in GD (PFS calls it dealer-reallowance). She is at 45%, so she’ll earn about $7,400.

She is a part-time person that I see about once a month. She was in PFS (in another base shop), and he LIFE IS CHANGED!

For those who have read my story above, check this out:
For June our base shop is at $80k in production.
2 reps are over $20,000 in income.
1 (in addition to above), is above $15,000.
3 (in addition to above), are above $5,000.
And a slew of part-times between $1,500 and $5,000.

(none of the above include my income).

My point is: GO INDEPENDENT!

I was also contacted by an old boss of mine from years ago with the same approach “I wanted to talk to you about something” and never specified. Only out of respect since I liked her and an old boss of mine, I agreed to meet with her for lunch. She knew I did not own a home or have debt, but targeted the recuiting issue of people I knew and attending meetings and joining her team.
I don’t like it and feel like it is a scam!

Well said Annette!

I have to admit that the above is a very succinct and accurate statement. The subject of Primerica may be a contentious one, but certainly no one who looks at it with a degree of objectivity and intelligence would admit when all is said and done that Primerica is a scam. Simply put, as Annette did, the financial services industry is too regulated, at the federal level, to allow Primerica, a multi-billion dollar company within the industry, to get away with being a scam.
That being said, questions as to the specifics of Primerica’s business model and the products and services that its reps market can be somewhat more subjective. I believe that those who have posted on this site in opposition of Primerica, led by the likes of Michael Thomas, have put forth many thought-provoking tid-bits of information to consider.

At the end of the day you must remember Annette, your old boss is more than likely very excited about the opportunity that Primerica offers and she probably felt like you possessed characteristics that would make you a strong candidate for the opportunity. Perhaps you are not impressed with the opportunity, but what if you had been looking for something else, or what if you were looking for some help with your finances and didn’t know where to turn and all the while your old boss could have helped but never tried to approach you. If you aren’t interested in the products, services or the opportunity its no skin off of you or your former boss’ teeth, at least you have the information, what you choose do with it is up to you.

Michael I have noticed no matter the facts given some people just don’t want to hear it.

For those who don’t know here are some of the free magazines such as http://www.lifeinsuranceselling.com or http://www.seniormarketadvisor.com or
http://www.agentssalesjournal.com that agents can subscribe to.

Something that’s common among people that leave Primerica and go somewhere else. At first there’s feeling of being played for a fool. Then there’s the anger stage. Then there’s the inform the world stage.

At least that’s the stages I went through. The secret to success isn’t in the products at Primerica. It’s in recruiting. Recruit enough people and the products will take care of themself. That’s the secret. Ask any of the big money earners what is the secret to making big income and they will say recruit. Not the quality of the products or about helping families, they will say recruit wide and deep.. Think about it.

The products don’t have to be super competitive and the compensation doesn’t have to be the best. Why, becuase in most instances the clients and the new agents don’t know any better. Why should PFS pay more if they don’t have to? Why should PFS offer fully guaranteed products if they don’t have to? If the agents or the public find out they can just change their name which they probably will considering all the flack they get on the net. This is big business..
The people at PFS are not stupid.

No problem Adam. These idiots act like we have not done the research on the company, know the controversial nature of the business model, and want to try it out anyway. I am not in denial about anything. It’s just that I have heard the arguments and decided to give it a try anyway. I think the haters are protesting a little too much. They are supposed to be so scary successful, but they are spending lots of time posting their condesceding comments to this site. I have an excuse, I am just getting started and am not terribly busy yet! I’ll say it again, not in denial, just want to try it anyway. The more you haters post, the more I think there is something to this opportunity that is making the financial folks teeth itch(that means they must be eating your lunch!). Maybe the “Regular Joes” don’t like or trust you all and want to speak to folks they know and trust. By the way, I have a Primerica life insurance policy whose rates are pretty much in line with everyone else’s. If it doesn’t work out, I will leave….simple….

Melissa here’s my two cents. In theory to me PFS is a good place to get licensed, especially if funds are an issue depending on which state your in. I think the cost is $99.00..

I am grateful for PFS introducing me to the industry, but also you have to consider I also gave them business from my friends and relatives. I also gave them new agents from my recruits. Primerica isn’t doing anyone any favors. To them it’s business.

If people want to start with PFS great, just know you can earn more money and have the ability to offer more products outside of Primerica. Something you must understand is most people who join PFS have no clue what to look for or what to ask for. At one time RVP’s could start anyone at any level they chose. Not everyone had to come in at the lower level. Ask around.
Just as licensed agents leaving PFS don’t have to start at another company/organization at the bottom level depending on the company.

The two years is a major consideration. Most people do contact their warm market when starting out in the business. Well all that business you put on the books at PFS is theirs for two years after you leave. (Consult your agent agreement) So if you leave, you leave with nothing from all the work you put in.

That’s something else the Primerica agents don’t look at. Primerica has an agreement with Prepaid Legal to market a plan for them. Out side Primerica the Prepaid Legal associates earn renewals on all the business they write that stays on the books, do the Primerica agents earn renewals on that business? From what I heard only RVP’s can earn renewals and then it has to stay on the books for a few years to get it.

Then there’s Long Term care. From my past understanding the reps don’t get renewals from that business. (Correct me if i’m wrong)..Outside Primerica and writing agent can earn renewals.

If by some chance you feel PFS is a stepping stone, do what you feel is best for you. Just understand going in and coming out. That’s all most are saying. Many of us went in dumb and blind. we are just sharing what we have learned. Everyone has the right to run their business as they see fit.

Primerica is not a scam company. They have their business model. Currently they are the big dog for part-timers. Many people tend to gloss over the business part and just look at the emotional feel good parts about Primerica. Yes they do help people by getting them on a program that may be better than they had before they met with a PFS agents. The problem for me was the mindset I was getting that every other company out in the industry was out to rip off the world and PFS was the only company doing what’s right. I bought into it hook line and sinker.

So if you feel that PFS is your stepping stone go for it, just understand the business going in and coming out. i’m sure there are people right now in PFS who want to leave, but can’t because they can’t take a hit on the current income they are making.

Can a person make big money at Primerica. I say yes, but you have to have the mindset of recruit and sell to the recruits warm market, and teach the recruit to do the same. To me their system is designed for the recruiter. Do people ever wonder why recruiting is tied to advancemant?

Outside PFS to earn the big incomes you can have a choice of personal production or by building a team depending on the company you align yourself with. You can have more control of how you wish to run your business and your life. There’s soooo much more.

Get your licenses.. If you decide to do it at PFS just keep Michaels contact information on file. I say that because he already has it posted…Good Luck in whatever you do…

@James

I agree with you.

@Mellisa

Thanks for the kind words.

You: “if you didnt work for PFS before you went out on your own would you be as successful as u are now? Whats wrong with using PFS as a stepping stone to the future? Sure they have you for two years or whatever but after that is’nt it your decision to stay or go? I am a single mom of two, I’ve been a stylist for 8 yrs I have no other skills I’m only 29 yrs old. I can’t afford school nor do I have the time for it. Is there another way to get into this business without spending alotta money or going to school for 2 yrs?”

PFS WAS a good starting point 15 years ago when it was the only game in town. Not anymore. Why use it as a “stepping stone”, when you can just start in a much better place right from the get-go?

There are quite a few Primerica-like companies that will hire you for the price of a license. At the risk of being self-promoting, you can shoot me an email and I can tell you about my agency. mptpro@gmail.com

Back to your question… You don’t need to go to any school to work in financial services. You just need a life/health license and a securities licnese and you can earn six (or seven) figures. WITHOUT recruiting.

You could look at a mom-and-pop financial agency in your home town. If you work on pure commission, I suspect most of them will let you work your own hours and not have quotas.

There are lots of options, most better than PFS. Please understand that PFS is NOT the same comoany it was 15 – 20 years ago. Like my analogy above… Microsoft vs Google.

Good questions Melissa.

regards,
MIchael

———————————–

@SM:

You: “And on the other comments that the commision payout are a lot lower than the other salespeople in the industry. Have you ever asked why? Or, where does the money come from that pays the higher commissions and higher profits? Probably not. The answer: CLIENTS!”

This is wrong. YOU should do the research. The extra commission that we earn “outside” of PFS comes from the lacking of having to pay the middle-man Primerica Corp and Citigroup.

NOT from the client. Quite the contrary. I market a CHEAPER MetLife VA than PFS’ version, and I ear substantially more.

Ditto for life insurance.

WHY DOESN’T SOMEONE FROM PFS RESPOND TO MY REQUEST TO PUT SOME FACTS/FIGURES/NUMBER OUT IN THE OPEN. I have asked Dave repeatedly. Haven’t heard from him, nor anyone else.

Show us some term quotes. Mortgage quotes. VA/MF quotes.

I’ve already shown quite a bit in previous posts. Any many of you readers have requested more via email. Have I not been forthcoming?

You: “Primerica is a perfect company”

You’re kidding, right? Perhaps this author isn’t even in PFS at all, and is trying to discredit the company with this over-the-top post.

Another point: if you start at PFS you are doing it at the expense of your clients and downlines. Why subject them to expensive products, and low income just so you can “try it for 2 years?

PFS’ers talk so much about Crusade, but when I show them a better product for the client (they even agree, once they see it), they STILL don’t make the change!!! What happen to “doing the right thing”?

You said some great things but let us look at the truth.

You pay $99 to get licensed. Awesome deal right?
Yet you have to give up 6 sales to your trainer (totalling hudreds in lost commissions)

This is incorrect. You need to get trained. Usually you lose 6 sales, or on average $1800. NOw what do you get for the $99.
1. Your license for two years. This is 240.00
2. Class for your license: 300.00+
3. Your Fingerprinting $100.00
4. Back ground testing: Depending on where and how deep.
5. Mortgage License $500.00
6. Auto and home Insurance: ????
7. Securities License, $400.00+

Now if they need more services, they are your clients.

and take a 25% commission for yourself which is very low.

I am not sure where you get your commissions but on term products it is low usually. But then most agents do not sell this, since they make more money on Cash value, and not Term.

Then at some point give up an agency leg group for VP promotion.

This is true, but if you give up a leg to get several legs. And this is something to look forward to since you only do it once. Then you are on the getting side forever.

Ouch I don’t know about you but I would rather pay the $300 it takes to get licensed (it is not $600 like they say)

I am not sure where you get your license, but it cost more than that in California. Also you only get one licens for that money. Remember you need to go to class, get fingerprinted, and your background tested.

and keep my clients at 60% commission with policies that are more competitive.

More competitive. that is why they sell all that garbage. How many cash value types insurance are there. 5 to 10. And how many term insurance products do you carry. And is your products equal to Primerica’s or are they cut rate types that disappear and have problems. My Dad died in Jan 2006, Primerica paid his claim in March. We are still waiting for some insuarnace companies to pay us 2 years ago. Primerica paid claims in 2 weeks of 9/11, while most companies waited until the governement decided if it was an act of war. ( This is so they do not have to pay.)

They always say they are not the cheapest but I fail to find justification for the increased premium when most other companies issue guaranteed level premiums beyond 20 years and they do not.

So why do people stay at the RITZ, when all it is a room? Econolodge is definitely equal to that. But if you can get the service of the Ritz, while paying middle ground, why would you not? Also since we are willing to work around their schedule, and come to them, would you not pay for service.

They also must pay for their brochures and FNA subscription when most other companies do free needs analysis without monthly subscription fees.

I am not sure what company you work for but I know Allstate does nto do that. They require that their agents to pay for more and more. Besides it is tax deductable, dollar for dollar. But then this is an employee mentality, not an Owner.

Their agents are limited in products and training. They cannot offer anything other than what they sell which means they often have to place clients in a box.

And You are not? If you are a captive agent you only can sell that product. And since most agents are, then you can’t sell nothing out side the companies. But then they can do different mutual funds and such.

Their office in Bountiful, Utah was raided for numerous violations of insurance code.

So one office out of hundreds is caught making a mistake. There are many companies that have them. ANd a violation could be simple, or complex. But then you do not list them.

As they are now ready to be sold (reported by both the Wall Street Journal and Bloomber News 5/6/08) you have to wonder what will happen to their agencies.

I am curious, who is being sold? If Citi sells their sales force then great they can sell what ever they want. But as of yet, they are still part of Citi, so this must be a mistake.

Remember that under their contract they do not own the clients or agents.

Now, if you work for Allstate, Farmers and most of the other big groups, you do not own the clients. And you can be terminated. In Primerica the only way to get terminated is to do something illegal. I knwo of several Allstate agents that are under the gun, to keep their businesses. ( Or is it their business since they can get fired. I thought owners can’t get fired.)

Their ratings dropped twice on fitchratings.com and the outlook is listed negative. I think that the great days of PFS are done.

Well it may have dropped, but then again it goes up again. As for your thinking, I am not to sure about it.

Most companies are 40% to 50% cheaper than they are.

When it comes to something important like insurance, I do nto go with the cheapest, because remember you get what you pay for. Who wants to call for your claim and get someone in India that requires you to jump through hoops. Or do you want an agent that lives near you to help you.

Specially when rating preferred women because they do something called unisex rating. They bill women nearly the same as men.

If it is unisex, then they are the same or is it nearly. I think you are confused.

I find that most of their agents are strongly indoctrinated to actually beleive anything their VP tells them no matter how far fetched it may be.

Something I ahve found out, that most non-Primerica Agents steer you to a cash value policy and not to a term plus mutual fund, whihc is best for the client. Most Mortgage people, set you up on adjustable with the intention of redoing your loan in 2 years.

Now that their parent company will “unload” them soon we’ll see what happens to their ratings and credibility.

This is the same thing they said when Metlife bought the Insurance business. They bought the business with the Liability, but got a free sales force. This emans they do not pay them unless they sell. Who would like to have a sales force that cost them nothing to equip, cost them no medical or insurance cost, no benefits cost, no office rents, just paying the commissions.

As for the Ratings and credibility, it is always nice to hear how bad they are doing, since I have stock in Citi. I am making money on it. The main reason I am is because of the sales force in Primerica, since it cost them nothing. Since it seems that this person is a competitor, it does nto suprise me the salm job he is trying.

@ everyone
I need as much advice and insight I can get. I’m very interested in this industry and would like a career in it. If you’d rather email me you can @ hunterharli@yahoo.com
Thanks you, Melissa

James boy, maybe one of these days you will make your own comments, not repeat what you only hear. See the problem with these back and forth comments in this website, is that we are talking several different subjects. One is product sales, another is building your own business, recruiting and building a team, and last but not least different ways to advertise your products or your business.

Unfortunately the opposition in most blogs against Primerica are made by the so-called semi-professional salespeople. That all they know how to do is sell CHEAP and HiGH commission products to families that trust them until its to late. These agents or just plain employee mindset people don’t know anything about building a business or company from scratch or even their own client base because it was given to them by the former agency maintainer. So that why it’s hard to talk to people like you. the stiffneck people. It’s like a doctor trying to have a conversation with a baby that was just born. It’s impossible. In fact, atleast they new born would respond.

So now lets teach you Advertising 101. You can build your business by either paying thousands of dollars in advertising or you can build your business by word of mouth advertising. What a terrible and high crime it is to work peoples warm market.(As was be scarcastic, in case you didn’t know. Quick question: So if you opened a restuarant, you would never talk to your family and friends about it. Because its terrible to try to sell your food to your friends and family. Only strangers should eat there. Ya, right?

If you would’ve listened right, you would’ve known that all Primerica offices are against “recruit to sell”. In fact when we talk about the the other side, the dark side, we say they “Sell to Sell” which it’s even worse. They sell to sell another product to the same client. Primerica “Recruits to Build”. We recruit a person to help them build a business and a client base.
It’s funny to read your comments that in order to ADVANCE to the next levels, recruiting is required. Ok, lets say that comment is totally true, which is not. What is wrong with showing a person on how to build a team so they can know what it takes to build a business of there own. Atleast we have an ADVANCE guideline on what it takes to continue ADVANCING to the next levels. It is not a requirement to make a high income. It’s funny because we have people in our company with a lower level contract that make more than some people that run an agency. Which by the way I took that path of ADVANCEMENT and I”ll be darn, it worked because I was looking for something that showed me a path that it didn’t matter if it took WORK as long as it WORKED. And now thank God, almost six times more income then my previous career.
Now I ask you, do you have to meet quotas where you work? And if you think I’m just talking about sales quotas I’m not. If your an employee, how about when you ask your boss to take a break to use the potty. You oughta be ashamed of yourself, your an adult already, I hope. Quit kissing butt to earn a promotion. Stand for something. Quit looking for a free lunch where the sales come to you.

For so many reasons. James boy we don’t quote over the internet or t.v. or the radio. Because that would cost the clients more money. Remember the client ALWAYS pays for everything. And another reason is because companies that sell that way normally do not want to provide an education or service to the client. They just want to sell the product the shotgun blast way. Remember people don’t buy products, they buy you. Which is why we retain more of our clients longer than other companies. It’s called client LOYALTY!

Now let me show you how a Proud Primerica RVP would answer your ignorant comments.(Just replying back is starting to make me feel ignorant). Yes I do believe that. Because I don’t repeat things I hear then type. I actually think, then respond.

Like I said clients can go anywhere they want to go. No one owns people’s decisions to change companies. How many companies do you need to sell for, to do the right thing the FIRST time. When our company already sells a plain vanilla SOLID term with a GOOD long term investment plan, you don’t have to go and sell another CHEAP product for another HIGH commission to the same client every other year. Which is what the loan officers did the last couple of years in the refinancing boom. Who really benefited? Not the clients. If your selling crappy products for a crappy company, then your right, you have continue to change companies and sell your clients another CHEAP product because you did it wrong the first time and the second and so on and so on, etc. By the way even though we are less expensive than most great service and value oriented companies. I would pay more a month to make sure my family is well taken care of when I’m here and when I’m gone.

Bottom line is: Term is better than Trash Value, Fixed loans with a debt elimination plan are better then ARMs and Neg.AMs loans, getting out of debt is better than being in debt, Mutaul Funds are better than leaving your money in the bank, Building a successful business is better than a successful job, if there is one. And that is in the people’s best interest!

I’ll bet if you own your own company, you hire new untested people and give them ownership the first day, right? You would probably open a 401k with profit sharing and tell your employee you can leave my company in a few months after I just deposited thousands of dolloars in your account, right? I’m sure not on both. Why don’t you also ask a top Univerity to give you a PHD degree immediately, because you say so. The fact that anybody that would leave a top Company like Primerica the first 2 years is a confirmation that they are untested to build a company of their own that is offering a six figure income opportunity. They are looking for a get rich quick scheme promised to them by our so-called competitors that are mad because they got some of their clients taken away by us.

We have clauses because we are an organization that is growing and attracts a lot of different kinds of people, good ones and bad ones. And the bad ones don’t like clauses and guidelines because they don’t like to be regulated by a mother company that wants to protect the clients and the Representatives. And so they come and see what we have to offer or they don’t last long and go somewhere else where they can sell anything CHEAP that makes them a quick buck. The Good ones don’t care if there’s clauses or guidelines because we don’t have anything to hide. And so we come to work, instead to complain and nitpick everything.
A good and Solid company should offer OWNERSHIP to the people that are COMMITTED and LOYAL to GROW it.

People that leave Primerica may get a contract that looks higher, but they are still not getting a Business Opportunity that they can offer the same to others which ultimately gives us the higher contract. And more importantly the Opportunity to do the right thing 100% of the time for the clients the first time.